[{"_1":2,"_49":-5,"_50":-5},"loaderData",{"_3":4,"_48":-5},"routes/episodes.$id",{"_5":6,"_7":8,"_9":10,"_11":12,"_13":14,"_15":-5,"_16":17,"_18":19,"_20":21,"_22":23,"_24":25,"_26":27,"_28":29,"_30":31,"_32":33,"_34":35,"_36":37,"_38":39},"id",417,"title","AI is about growth, not just productivity","subtitle","Listen to this leadership podcast with Eric Kutcher, Chair of McKinsey North America, and discover how every leader should be thinking about AI right now.","summary","

“This is a once-in-a-generation technology transition.”

That’s how Eric Kutcher, Senior Partner and North America Chair at McKinsey & Company describes the AI moment we’re living through. And he should know: he’s spent 28 years coaching the world’s top companies through massive change.

In this episode, Eric breaks down the AI revolution in practical terms, dives deep into what truly makes a team great, and shares a story involving three thousand stress balls that you’ll never forget.

You’ll also learn:

What it means to work with “long term urgency”
How to identify great talent when they have zero experience
The mindset you need to bounce back from a big failure
Two ways you can drive change in your organization

","transcript","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.920\nHello everyone and welcome to another episode of How Leaders Lead with David\n\n2\n00:00:03.920 --> 00:00:05.360\nNovak. Today's guest\n\n3\n00:00:05.360 --> 00:00:09.530\nis Eric Kutcher. He's a senior partner and chair of North America at Mackenzie\n\n4\n00:00:09.530 --> 00:00:10.160\n& Company,\n\n5\n00:00:10.160 --> 00:00:14.130\nwhich, as most of you know, is one of the largest consulting firms in the world\n\n6\n00:00:14.130 --> 00:00:14.400\n.\n\n7\n00:00:14.400 --> 00:00:19.330\nEric's a renowned expert in AI, and he talks a lot about how this is the most\n\n8\n00:00:19.330 --> 00:00:20.640\ntransformative\n\n9\n00:00:20.640 --> 00:00:25.600\nmoment our generation will get to lead through. He's spent over 28 years\n\n10\n00:00:25.600 --> 00:00:26.480\ncoaching the world's\n\n11\n00:00:26.480 --> 00:00:30.720\ntop companies through massive change. And in today's episode, you'll get his\n\n12\n00:00:30.720 --> 00:00:32.080\ncoaching and expertise\n\n13\n00:00:32.080 --> 00:00:37.000\naround how you should be utilizing AI, not just for productivity, but for new\n\n14\n00:00:37.000 --> 00:00:38.000\nrevenue generation\n\n15\n00:00:38.000 --> 00:00:42.310\nand growth. Enjoy this conversation between David and Eric, and I will see you\n\n16\n00:00:42.310 --> 00:00:43.280\nat the debrief.\n\n17\n00:00:49.120 --> 00:00:55.870\nNow, I understand that you've broken quite a few bones over the years. What's\n\n18\n00:00:55.870 --> 00:00:56.960\nthe total up to this\n\n19\n00:00:56.960 --> 00:01:00.350\npoint? I don't even know. I think I stopped counting a long time ago, so I was\n\n20\n00:01:00.350 --> 00:01:01.200\nin nine short\n\n21\n00:01:01.200 --> 00:01:06.160\narm casts. I broke my nose six times, collarbone twice, fingers didn't count,\n\n22\n00:01:06.160 --> 00:01:07.360\ntwo thumb surgeries,\n\n23\n00:01:07.360 --> 00:01:11.470\none knee surgery. I don't even, I think that's as much as I can remember. But I\n\n24\n00:01:11.470 --> 00:01:12.800\nam quite, quite\n\n25\n00:01:12.800 --> 00:01:17.680\nconvinced that if I grew up today and had a file like I did, the Department of\n\n26\n00:01:17.680 --> 00:01:18.320\nFamily Services would\n\n27\n00:01:18.320 --> 00:01:21.760\nsure have come knocking on our door. And every one of those was playing a\n\n28\n00:01:21.760 --> 00:01:22.720\ndifferent sport or doing\n\n29\n00:01:22.720 --> 00:01:28.790\nsomething stupid as a kid. Which bone has the, which broken bone has the best\n\n30\n00:01:28.790 --> 00:01:30.000\nstory behind it?\n\n31\n00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:33.280\nWhich one has the best? So here's one that's kind of more speaks to me\n\n32\n00:01:33.280 --> 00:01:38.560\nand who I am and a little bit of my irreverence. But I was a pretty decent\n\n33\n00:01:38.560 --> 00:01:40.000\nbaseball player back in\n\n34\n00:01:40.000 --> 00:01:43.590\nthe day. There was a man on third base, it was a summer, it was a summer league\n\n35\n00:01:43.590 --> 00:01:44.480\n, a man on third\n\n36\n00:01:44.480 --> 00:01:47.630\nbase. And for those that know, if the ball is hit to the left side of the\n\n37\n00:01:47.630 --> 00:01:48.800\ninfield, the runner is\n\n38\n00:01:48.800 --> 00:01:52.730\nnot supposed to go and the runner went on contact. And it was a close game,\n\n39\n00:01:52.730 --> 00:01:53.920\nkind of middle to a late\n\n40\n00:01:53.920 --> 00:01:58.510\npart of the game. And the third baseman froze and like pumped three times. And\n\n41\n00:01:58.510 --> 00:01:59.680\nby the time he got\n\n42\n00:01:59.680 --> 00:02:04.560\nme the ball, I caught it. And as I went to put my, my throwing him, my non-gl\n\n43\n00:02:04.560 --> 00:02:05.600\nove hand in to hold\n\n44\n00:02:05.600 --> 00:02:09.900\nthe ball so I could take the hit, the kids cleat got in my glove and broke my\n\n45\n00:02:09.900 --> 00:02:11.520\nthumb in 17 spots.\n\n46\n00:02:12.160 --> 00:02:15.440\nAnd I was really pissed because I dropped the ball and the runner was safe. And\n\n47\n00:02:15.440 --> 00:02:16.160\nso I went to pick up\n\n48\n00:02:16.160 --> 00:02:19.440\nthe ball and I called time out and walked it back out to the pitcher's mount.\n\n49\n00:02:19.440 --> 00:02:20.720\nAnd my thumb was just\n\n50\n00:02:20.720 --> 00:02:24.890\nabsolutely an agony. And so I went back behind home plate and coach said, can\n\n51\n00:02:24.890 --> 00:02:25.440\nyou play? I said,\n\n52\n00:02:25.440 --> 00:02:28.800\nI don't know if I can play, but we're going to try. And sure enough, I went to,\n\n53\n00:02:28.800 --> 00:02:29.440\nI caught the first\n\n54\n00:02:29.440 --> 00:02:32.490\npitch, went to throw and the ball came right out of my hand. And he goes, all\n\n55\n00:02:32.490 --> 00:02:33.360\nright, you're pulling\n\n56\n00:02:33.360 --> 00:02:36.410\nyou out. And I sat in the dugout, we had a double header. And I just started y\n\n57\n00:02:36.410 --> 00:02:37.360\nanking on my thumb\n\n58\n00:02:37.360 --> 00:02:40.840\nbecause it looked like it was dislocated. But it turns out it wasn't dislocated\n\n59\n00:02:40.840 --> 00:02:41.680\n, it was broken.\n\n60\n00:02:41.680 --> 00:02:46.240\nSo I didn't play the double header. And again, in kind of who I am, when I got\n\n61\n00:02:46.240 --> 00:02:47.040\nout of surgery,\n\n62\n00:02:47.040 --> 00:02:51.920\nI made the mold the cast to the bench so I could continue to work out that\n\n63\n00:02:51.920 --> 00:02:52.400\nsummer when I couldn't\n\n64\n00:02:52.400 --> 00:02:57.490\nplay anymore ball. That says quite a bit about your leadership, I imagine. I\n\n65\n00:02:57.490 --> 00:02:57.920\ndon't know about\n\n66\n00:02:57.920 --> 00:03:02.840\nmy leadership, but about my own stupidity. Yeah, maybe it says you don't really\n\n67\n00:03:02.840 --> 00:03:03.600\ngive up, you know?\n\n68\n00:03:04.720 --> 00:03:09.640\nYou know, there's really so much that I wanted to discuss about your time at\n\n69\n00:03:09.640 --> 00:03:11.120\nMcKinsey in the past\n\n70\n00:03:11.120 --> 00:03:16.040\n28 years you've spent at that phenomenal firm. And the kick things off, you\n\n71\n00:03:16.040 --> 00:03:17.040\nknow, I know that\n\n72\n00:03:17.040 --> 00:03:21.450\nyou're a renowned expert in artificial intelligence. I mean, you know, you\n\n73\n00:03:21.450 --> 00:03:22.640\nwould never tell me that,\n\n74\n00:03:22.640 --> 00:03:26.950\nbut a lot of people have told me that. And every leader today is really trying\n\n75\n00:03:26.950 --> 00:03:28.240\nto figure it out\n\n76\n00:03:28.240 --> 00:03:33.180\nright now. When you strip away all the hype of AI, and everybody's talking\n\n77\n00:03:33.180 --> 00:03:34.640\nabout it, you know,\n\n78\n00:03:34.640 --> 00:03:40.080\nwhat should leaders really understand about AI? So I am definitely not an\n\n79\n00:03:40.080 --> 00:03:41.360\nexpert and I appreciate\n\n80\n00:03:41.360 --> 00:03:44.210\nthe praise, but I am not. There are people that really understand this. What I\n\n81\n00:03:44.210 --> 00:03:45.360\nhave is a lens from\n\n82\n00:03:45.360 --> 00:03:49.910\ntalking to many, many, many clients and seeing at this moment kind of where we\n\n83\n00:03:49.910 --> 00:03:51.200\nare. I think this\n\n84\n00:03:51.200 --> 00:03:54.190\nis, and I've talked about this, the most transformative moment that this\n\n85\n00:03:54.190 --> 00:03:55.440\ngeneration will get to lead\n\n86\n00:03:55.440 --> 00:03:59.530\nthrough, right? I think this is a once in a generation type technology\n\n87\n00:03:59.530 --> 00:04:01.920\ntransition. You know, as someone\n\n88\n00:04:01.920 --> 00:04:05.520\nelse pointed out to me, it's probably the fourth great industrial revolution.\n\n89\n00:04:05.520 --> 00:04:06.400\nThe first one goes\n\n90\n00:04:06.400 --> 00:04:10.470\nall the way back to the invention of steam. And that was the first time we saw\n\n91\n00:04:10.470 --> 00:04:11.760\ntrans oceanic\n\n92\n00:04:11.760 --> 00:04:15.110\ntransport. You've then followed that up with the internal combustion engine\n\n93\n00:04:15.110 --> 00:04:16.000\nthat led to whether\n\n94\n00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:20.980\nit was trains or whether it led to the automobile kind of trans within the\n\n95\n00:04:20.980 --> 00:04:22.960\ncontinent, if you will.\n\n96\n00:04:22.960 --> 00:04:25.830\nAnd then the third was the invention of the semiconductor, which put all this\n\n97\n00:04:25.830 --> 00:04:27.040\namazing technology.\n\n98\n00:04:27.040 --> 00:04:30.960\nAnd every one of those had a 40 to 50 year period of massive change. Some of\n\n99\n00:04:30.960 --> 00:04:31.600\nthat comes with the\n\n100\n00:04:31.600 --> 00:04:36.010\nindustrial revolution. You see levels of productivity. I don't think we've seen\n\n101\n00:04:36.010 --> 00:04:37.600\nthis since the invention\n\n102\n00:04:37.600 --> 00:04:41.680\nof the semiconductor. And what we are now about to witness is this generation's\n\n103\n00:04:41.680 --> 00:04:42.400\nopportunity to\n\n104\n00:04:42.400 --> 00:04:47.320\nthink about. So I believe in this moment, I often call it the reimagine moment.\n\n105\n00:04:47.320 --> 00:04:48.640\nAnd the reason why is\n\n106\n00:04:48.640 --> 00:04:53.950\nit is an opportunity for every CEO, and I do think it is more the CEO moment\n\n107\n00:04:53.950 --> 00:04:54.800\nthan most,\n\n108\n00:04:55.360 --> 00:05:00.640\nto really reimagine what their business looks like out five and 10 years. And I\n\n109\n00:05:00.640 --> 00:05:01.280\n'm sure David,\n\n110\n00:05:01.280 --> 00:05:04.840\nyou would say having been one of the great operators, great CEOs, no one can\n\n111\n00:05:04.840 --> 00:05:06.080\nlook at five to 10 years.\n\n112\n00:05:06.080 --> 00:05:10.380\nBut I do think in this moment, you have to ask yourself, what could I, if I\n\n113\n00:05:10.380 --> 00:05:11.280\nbuilt this company,\n\n114\n00:05:11.280 --> 00:05:15.040\nAI first look like five to 10 years from now, because I think that's the length\n\n115\n00:05:15.040 --> 00:05:15.680\nof the journey.\n\n116\n00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:19.280\nAnd I think it's one of those moments that the CEOs that are not doing that,\n\n117\n00:05:19.280 --> 00:05:22.000\nfrankly, are going to get left behind and their companies are going to be in\n\n118\n00:05:22.000 --> 00:05:22.640\ntrouble. And the\n\n119\n00:05:22.640 --> 00:05:26.720\nones that are really out there looking and what is looking look like, I'll come\n\n120\n00:05:26.720 --> 00:05:27.360\nback to in just a\n\n121\n00:05:27.360 --> 00:05:31.770\nmoment. I think they are going to have an opportunity to, if you will, pass in\n\n122\n00:05:31.770 --> 00:05:32.960\nthe rain or pass the\n\n123\n00:05:32.960 --> 00:05:36.680\ncars that are kind of standing there and not moving as quickly. When I think\n\n124\n00:05:36.680 --> 00:05:37.440\nabout this moment,\n\n125\n00:05:37.440 --> 00:05:42.360\nI tend to think about it in three different buckets. Bucket number one is there\n\n126\n00:05:42.360 --> 00:05:42.720\nis pure\n\n127\n00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:47.270\nproductivity. And by the way, most CEOs get relatively unexcited. I find this\n\n128\n00:05:47.270 --> 00:05:47.920\nis much more\n\n129\n00:05:47.920 --> 00:05:52.430\nthe CFO world, where you can paint a picture that doesn't take very much. It\n\n130\n00:05:52.430 --> 00:05:53.760\nsays my G&A cost as a\n\n131\n00:05:53.760 --> 00:05:59.950\npercentage of revenue could be down by 50%. Because you could imagine really\n\n132\n00:05:59.950 --> 00:06:01.520\nreimagining all of the\n\n133\n00:06:01.520 --> 00:06:05.800\ncore processes, whether it's HR, whether it's finance, and what's super\n\n134\n00:06:05.800 --> 00:06:07.120\ninteresting about those\n\n135\n00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:11.410\nand create a much better experience. I don't know what your experience has been\n\n136\n00:06:11.410 --> 00:06:12.240\nlike mine.\n\n137\n00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:16.080\nIt's very frustrating. I have to go scour my internet to go figure out, or\n\n138\n00:06:16.080 --> 00:06:16.480\ninternet,\n\n139\n00:06:16.480 --> 00:06:20.670\nI should say, to figure out what HR policy this is, or that is, or what benefit\n\n140\n00:06:20.670 --> 00:06:21.040\nI have.\n\n141\n00:06:21.040 --> 00:06:24.600\nThat should never be the case again. That should be something where I am\n\n142\n00:06:24.600 --> 00:06:25.120\nchatting with\n\n143\n00:06:25.120 --> 00:06:28.880\nsomething, whether by voice or whether by text. And the answer is very much in\n\n144\n00:06:28.880 --> 00:06:30.480\nsitu. And that,\n\n145\n00:06:30.480 --> 00:06:34.400\nif you do it well, I think we'll have many fewer people. We looked at this for\n\n146\n00:06:34.400 --> 00:06:35.440\na client on marketing,\n\n147\n00:06:35.440 --> 00:06:40.360\nwhich you could argue is a function that is much more on the revenue generating\n\n148\n00:06:40.360 --> 00:06:40.480\nside,\n\n149\n00:06:40.480 --> 00:06:44.560\nnot even the more traditional G&A. And we found a way, and this now gets into\n\n150\n00:06:44.560 --> 00:06:46.080\nbucket number two.\n\n151\n00:06:46.080 --> 00:06:51.740\nBut before you get into that one, this whole thing on the productivity, it\n\n152\n00:06:51.740 --> 00:06:52.960\nreduces the number of\n\n153\n00:06:52.960 --> 00:06:59.840\npeople. I don't know how should leaders really communicate that. I mean, people\n\n154\n00:06:59.840 --> 00:07:00.400\nworry about\n\n155\n00:07:00.400 --> 00:07:04.810\nlosing their job. There's a big fear of what can happen. How do you handle that\n\n156\n00:07:04.810 --> 00:07:05.280\nas a leader,\n\n157\n00:07:05.280 --> 00:07:09.040\nwhether you're a CEO or leading a team that might be impacted by it?\n\n158\n00:07:09.040 --> 00:07:13.160\nYeah, so it's super interesting. The first, I can't tell you, a couple dozen\n\n159\n00:07:13.160 --> 00:07:14.160\nconversations I had\n\n160\n00:07:14.160 --> 00:07:18.210\naround AI. It was a lot around this question of productivity. And I think most\n\n161\n00:07:18.210 --> 00:07:19.360\nleaders realize\n\n162\n00:07:19.360 --> 00:07:24.280\nit's super hard to move the organization to get excited about a world where\n\n163\n00:07:24.280 --> 00:07:25.120\nthey have fewer\n\n164\n00:07:25.120 --> 00:07:29.290\nemployees. And I think most organizations have a recognition that there will be\n\n165\n00:07:29.290 --> 00:07:29.760\nsome,\n\n166\n00:07:29.760 --> 00:07:34.170\nbut much more what I have found is most want to figure out how do I do this to\n\n167\n00:07:34.170 --> 00:07:34.880\nenable growth.\n\n168\n00:07:34.880 --> 00:07:38.800\nAnd so one level of that is I can do all kinds of things that they either drive\n\n169\n00:07:38.800 --> 00:07:39.280\ngrowth in the\n\n170\n00:07:39.280 --> 00:07:42.680\ncore business, and I can do that without adding more heads. This is a marketing\n\n171\n00:07:42.680 --> 00:07:43.440\nexample that I'll\n\n172\n00:07:43.440 --> 00:07:50.830\ncome to. The other is I can start all kinds of new businesses, and I can rebal\n\n173\n00:07:50.830 --> 00:07:51.600\nance from places\n\n174\n00:07:51.600 --> 00:07:54.400\nwhere I can take labor out and move towards areas of investment that I wouldn't\n\n175\n00:07:54.400 --> 00:07:55.360\nbe able to do before.\n\n176\n00:07:55.360 --> 00:07:58.840\nAnd so what I think most organizations are now pivoting to, and about two\n\n177\n00:07:58.840 --> 00:08:00.000\nthirds of the CEOs I\n\n178\n00:08:00.000 --> 00:08:04.080\ntalk to say, I really want to orient the story of AI towards a growth story and\n\n179\n00:08:04.080 --> 00:08:04.560\nnot towards a\n\n180\n00:08:04.560 --> 00:08:09.480\nproductivity story. We will get the productivity, but we'll do it as an enabler\n\n181\n00:08:09.480 --> 00:08:10.240\nof what we get out\n\n182\n00:08:10.240 --> 00:08:14.360\nof the growth side. And so I think most senior executives, I think they've\n\n183\n00:08:14.360 --> 00:08:15.200\nstruggled with the,\n\n184\n00:08:15.200 --> 00:08:21.270\nI'm going to use this as a real source of, as I said, the G&A at 50%. And much\n\n185\n00:08:21.270 --> 00:08:22.320\nmore, how do I\n\n186\n00:08:22.320 --> 00:08:25.600\nthink about getting the resources to the places that will make the biggest\n\n187\n00:08:25.600 --> 00:08:26.560\ndifference to allow\n\n188\n00:08:26.560 --> 00:08:29.940\nthat level of growth that we weren't unable to do in the past? And frankly, we\n\n189\n00:08:29.940 --> 00:08:30.640\nhave limited the\n\n190\n00:08:30.640 --> 00:08:34.060\ngrowth because we don't have the investment capacity to go take the resources\n\n191\n00:08:34.060 --> 00:08:35.040\naway from here and move\n\n192\n00:08:35.040 --> 00:08:38.880\nthem over here. Got it. So moving to that second.\n\n193\n00:08:38.880 --> 00:08:43.420\nI'll open the marking example. So this is a CEO of a company that's worth about\n\n194\n00:08:43.420 --> 00:08:44.800\n$300 billion,\n\n195\n00:08:44.800 --> 00:08:48.270\nright, had been on an incredible journey to get there. He really wants to hit a\n\n196\n00:08:48.270 --> 00:08:49.040\ntrillion dollars.\n\n197\n00:08:49.040 --> 00:08:51.760\nAnd that's not, and he wants to do it in the next three to four years. That is,\n\n198\n00:08:51.760 --> 00:08:52.320\nI mean,\n\n199\n00:08:52.320 --> 00:08:55.200\nnot that many companies, and I realize we've lived in this unique moment where\n\n200\n00:08:55.200 --> 00:08:55.520\nyou've seen\n\n201\n00:08:55.520 --> 00:08:58.890\nmore, but there have been, it's only four or five years ago, we talked about,\n\n202\n00:08:58.890 --> 00:08:59.600\nmaybe we'll see our\n\n203\n00:08:59.600 --> 00:09:03.370\nfirst trillion dollar company. And now we've got upwards of five trillion, and\n\n204\n00:09:03.370 --> 00:09:04.320\nthere's probably\n\n205\n00:09:04.320 --> 00:09:09.390\nseven or six or seven of them. But it wasn't, that was not a common kind of\n\n206\n00:09:09.390 --> 00:09:10.080\nlevel of scale.\n\n207\n00:09:10.080 --> 00:09:15.300\nAnd he said, look, I know I've got about a thousand customers today, and the\n\n208\n00:09:15.300 --> 00:09:16.480\nonly way I can get to\n\n209\n00:09:16.480 --> 00:09:20.600\na trillion is if I can get to 3,000 customers. And I've got to figure out how\n\n210\n00:09:20.600 --> 00:09:20.960\nto do that,\n\n211\n00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:24.410\nbecause I'm not without adding any resource. I've got to figure out how do I go\n\n212\n00:09:24.410 --> 00:09:24.960\n, and by the way,\n\n213\n00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:27.920\nto do that, I've got to go after very different segments and a very different\n\n214\n00:09:27.920 --> 00:09:29.120\ngo-to-market motion\n\n215\n00:09:29.120 --> 00:09:34.040\nthat is much more what they would call product-led and much more kind of self-d\n\n216\n00:09:34.040 --> 00:09:34.480\niscovery and\n\n217\n00:09:34.480 --> 00:09:38.320\nscaling through there before you come. And so how do I target those customers?\n\n218\n00:09:38.320 --> 00:09:38.880\nHow do I message\n\n219\n00:09:38.880 --> 00:09:42.710\nthose customers? And how do I do that all using kind of an agentic first, right\n\n220\n00:09:42.710 --> 00:09:44.000\n? And so we really\n\n221\n00:09:44.000 --> 00:09:48.920\nare in the middle of kind of reworking what that organization looks like, right\n\n222\n00:09:48.920 --> 00:09:49.920\n, to enable that\n\n223\n00:09:49.920 --> 00:09:53.680\n1,000 to 3,000. And the whole reason they haven't gotten there in the past,\n\n224\n00:09:53.680 --> 00:09:54.160\nthey haven't able to\n\n225\n00:09:54.160 --> 00:09:57.190\nmake the investment. Now, some of that investment to get to the one that is\n\n226\n00:09:57.190 --> 00:09:58.800\ngoing to come from places\n\n227\n00:09:58.800 --> 00:10:02.720\nwhere they absolutely reduce heads, but it's going to go to places that allow\n\n228\n00:10:02.720 --> 00:10:03.920\nthem to go from $300\n\n229\n00:10:03.920 --> 00:10:07.740\nbillion to $1 trillion. And I have to say, when we started this conversation, I\n\n230\n00:10:07.740 --> 00:10:08.640\ndidn't think it was\n\n231\n00:10:08.640 --> 00:10:12.200\npossible. I was like, there's no way we're going to get to $1 trillion in three\n\n232\n00:10:12.200 --> 00:10:13.360\n, four, five years,\n\n233\n00:10:13.360 --> 00:10:17.140\npick that time period. And now I think it is, right? I actually think you can\n\n234\n00:10:17.140 --> 00:10:18.240\ndo that. So,\n\n235\n00:10:18.240 --> 00:10:21.930\nbut that's an example, because you could have started that conversation on\n\n236\n00:10:21.930 --> 00:10:22.880\nmarketing about\n\n237\n00:10:22.880 --> 00:10:27.850\nhow do I go and take out some large percentage of the marketing force. And\n\n238\n00:10:27.850 --> 00:10:28.880\ninstead we most\n\n239\n00:10:28.880 --> 00:10:33.020\nmore pivoted towards how do I think about going from 1,000 to 3,000. And when\n\n240\n00:10:33.020 --> 00:10:34.000\nyou do that, the\n\n241\n00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:37.920\norganization goes, I want to be on that journey. How do you get? I know you're\n\n242\n00:10:37.920 --> 00:10:38.240\ngoing to get to\n\n243\n00:10:38.240 --> 00:10:42.750\nthis third book, but how do you create a AI driven culture? You know, I want to\n\n244\n00:10:42.750 --> 00:10:44.240\nbe on this journey.\n\n245\n00:10:44.240 --> 00:10:49.220\nSo in the case I just gave you, you have to start by saying, do we believe, do\n\n246\n00:10:49.220 --> 00:10:50.080\nwe want to get to\n\n247\n00:10:50.080 --> 00:10:54.320\nthis place, whether it's 1,000 to 3,000 to 300 to a trillion, whatever that\n\n248\n00:10:54.320 --> 00:10:55.040\nmission that you're\n\n249\n00:10:55.040 --> 00:10:58.470\nsaying and why. And one of the things I've learned over the years as someone\n\n250\n00:10:58.470 --> 00:10:59.840\ntaught me is there's\n\n251\n00:10:59.840 --> 00:11:02.150\ndifferent groups. There's some people that are motivated by what's in it for\n\n252\n00:11:02.150 --> 00:11:04.000\nthem. You may argue\n\n253\n00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:07.590\nthat if I go from 300 to a trillion, look at my bank account. There's another\n\n254\n00:11:07.590 --> 00:11:08.240\ngroup that says,\n\n255\n00:11:08.240 --> 00:11:10.640\nwhat does that do for the community around me? There's another group that says,\n\n256\n00:11:10.640 --> 00:11:11.280\nwhat does it do for\n\n257\n00:11:11.280 --> 00:11:15.050\nmy customers? There's another group that says, what does it do for my team? And\n\n258\n00:11:15.050 --> 00:11:16.080\nso you have to\n\n259\n00:11:16.080 --> 00:11:19.560\nfigure out how you can create the why that speaks to everyone that puts\n\n260\n00:11:19.560 --> 00:11:21.200\neveryone in that organization\n\n261\n00:11:21.200 --> 00:11:25.120\non that same mission and that every one of the jobs that you are doing is\n\n262\n00:11:25.120 --> 00:11:26.640\norienting towards that\n\n263\n00:11:26.640 --> 00:11:31.860\nmission. To do that today, you can't do these things. You can't dream that big\n\n264\n00:11:31.860 --> 00:11:32.400\nwithout thinking\n\n265\n00:11:32.400 --> 00:11:36.220\nabout what does it look like AI first. And the hardest part of the, I mean, one\n\n266\n00:11:36.220 --> 00:11:36.560\nof the things\n\n267\n00:11:36.560 --> 00:11:40.730\nthat's so magical about AI today is the most democratized technology we've ever\n\n268\n00:11:40.730 --> 00:11:41.200\nseen,\n\n269\n00:11:42.720 --> 00:11:46.020\nright? It's in everyone's hands. It's why everyone talks about, look at the\n\n270\n00:11:46.020 --> 00:11:46.800\nrate and pace which they\n\n271\n00:11:46.800 --> 00:11:51.110\ngot to 100 million users, right? Everyone is using this, whether you're using\n\n272\n00:11:51.110 --> 00:11:52.160\nit to plan your trip,\n\n273\n00:11:52.160 --> 00:11:54.890\nwhether you're using it to plan your recipes, whether you're using this to ask\n\n274\n00:11:54.890 --> 00:11:55.600\nit the question\n\n275\n00:11:55.600 --> 00:11:59.350\nused to ask Google, right? Everyone is using this, which means every one of our\n\n276\n00:11:59.350 --> 00:11:59.920\nemployees\n\n277\n00:11:59.920 --> 00:12:04.960\nis using AI. I got to get to this third bucket, but I want to ask you this one\n\n278\n00:12:04.960 --> 00:12:05.280\nbecause we're\n\n279\n00:12:05.280 --> 00:12:09.490\nhonest. This is so fascinating. You know, what skills should leaders be\n\n280\n00:12:09.490 --> 00:12:11.520\ndeveloping in their people\n\n281\n00:12:11.520 --> 00:12:17.280\nif AI is doing so much of their thinking these days? So I get this question a\n\n282\n00:12:17.280 --> 00:12:18.080\nlot in the context\n\n283\n00:12:18.080 --> 00:12:21.670\nof McKinsey, right? Because this question comes up is, gosh, what a lot of the\n\n284\n00:12:21.670 --> 00:12:22.640\nwork that you guys\n\n285\n00:12:22.640 --> 00:12:26.720\nwere doing some period of time ago, the AI can do, and I'm like, absolutely.\n\n286\n00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:27.600\nBut if you go back\n\n287\n00:12:27.600 --> 00:12:30.880\nin time and look at what I did when I was first an analyst, what I took six\n\n288\n00:12:30.880 --> 00:12:31.920\nweeks to do, we now\n\n289\n00:12:31.920 --> 00:12:36.840\ncall Tuesday between 8.30 and 9. That's just the way it's been evolving that\n\n290\n00:12:36.840 --> 00:12:37.600\nway. The problems get\n\n291\n00:12:37.600 --> 00:12:41.000\nmore complicated. The young adults that are graduating from university that I\n\n292\n00:12:41.000 --> 00:12:42.400\nget to speak to, I say,\n\n293\n00:12:42.400 --> 00:12:45.970\nlook, the things that will differentiate you is, A, have you learned how to\n\n294\n00:12:45.970 --> 00:12:47.040\nbecome a great prompt\n\n295\n00:12:47.040 --> 00:12:50.730\nengineer? Do you know how to ask the right questions? And by the way, part of\n\n296\n00:12:50.730 --> 00:12:51.680\nasking the right questions\n\n297\n00:12:51.680 --> 00:12:55.400\nis being incredibly intellectually curious, right? You're going to get a\n\n298\n00:12:55.400 --> 00:12:57.120\nsurface level answer\n\n299\n00:12:57.120 --> 00:12:59.840\nin some period of time. It could be three minutes. It could be five minutes. It\n\n300\n00:12:59.840 --> 00:13:00.400\ncould be an hour,\n\n301\n00:13:00.400 --> 00:13:04.200\ndepending on the complexity of what you ask. But do you understand why you got\n\n302\n00:13:04.200 --> 00:13:05.120\nthat answer? Are you\n\n303\n00:13:05.120 --> 00:13:08.210\nwilling to challenge that answer? Are you willing to ask it more subsequent\n\n304\n00:13:08.210 --> 00:13:08.880\nquestions?\n\n305\n00:13:08.880 --> 00:13:11.760\nAre you willing to ask it a different question to get a different answer, to\n\n306\n00:13:11.760 --> 00:13:13.840\nsee what the A's and\n\n307\n00:13:13.840 --> 00:13:17.330\nthe B's or the red and the blues? And so you have to get super intellectually\n\n308\n00:13:17.330 --> 00:13:17.840\ncurious,\n\n309\n00:13:17.840 --> 00:13:22.800\nand you have to be willing to be a good prompt engineer that never accepts the\n\n310\n00:13:22.800 --> 00:13:23.440\nfirst surface\n\n311\n00:13:23.440 --> 00:13:27.200\nlevel answer. And so I think today, everyone has to start to do this.\n\n312\n00:13:27.200 --> 00:13:33.680\nHow do you teach curiosity? How do you teach that? How do you drive that deep\n\n313\n00:13:33.680 --> 00:13:34.960\nin your organization?\n\n314\n00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:38.710\nSo I believe that anytime you're trying to make organizational changes a lot. I\n\n315\n00:13:38.710 --> 00:13:39.120\nmean,\n\n316\n00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:43.090\nthere's an influence model and one of those is role modeling and the other is\n\n317\n00:13:43.090 --> 00:13:44.000\nquestions that\n\n318\n00:13:44.000 --> 00:13:46.990\nyou can ask, right? And so people tend and you know this when you were, you\n\n319\n00:13:46.990 --> 00:13:47.360\nknow,\n\n320\n00:13:47.360 --> 00:13:51.480\nif you're asking a question, people are going to start to realize it's\n\n321\n00:13:51.480 --> 00:13:53.280\nimportant, right? That is\n\n322\n00:13:53.280 --> 00:13:59.130\none of the, I would say, the privileges of leadership. And for me, it's every\n\n323\n00:13:59.130 --> 00:14:01.200\ntime I get in with a team.\n\n324\n00:14:01.200 --> 00:14:04.760\nFirst of all, I asked them how they're using it. Like I asked them, well, how\n\n325\n00:14:04.760 --> 00:14:05.200\ndid you come up with\n\n326\n00:14:05.200 --> 00:14:10.120\nthis answer? How do you use the AI? What questions were you asking it? Did you\n\n327\n00:14:10.120 --> 00:14:10.960\nask it X? Did you,\n\n328\n00:14:10.960 --> 00:14:14.300\nyou know, you have to, you have to be intellectually curious, first and\n\n329\n00:14:14.300 --> 00:14:15.200\nforemost,\n\n330\n00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:19.270\nif you want them to be intellectually curious, be they have to see that you're\n\n331\n00:14:19.270 --> 00:14:21.440\nusing it, right?\n\n332\n00:14:21.440 --> 00:14:24.870\nYou know, what are your own experiences? So I will talk about like how I used\n\n333\n00:14:24.870 --> 00:14:25.840\nit to do X or do I.\n\n334\n00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:30.860\nAnd then, you know, you have to find ways to celebrate whether it's teams or\n\n335\n00:14:30.860 --> 00:14:31.360\nindividuals\n\n336\n00:14:31.360 --> 00:14:35.440\nor do something outstanding to use a technology, which is a little bit of the\n\n337\n00:14:35.440 --> 00:14:36.160\npulpit that you get\n\n338\n00:14:36.160 --> 00:14:41.080\nto sit on to say, again, I don't know, maybe this is just inside my firm, but\n\n339\n00:14:41.080 --> 00:14:42.800\ninside McKinsey,\n\n340\n00:14:42.800 --> 00:14:48.720\nyou will see if someone of leadership celebrates someone else, everyone starts\n\n341\n00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:49.040\nto say, well,\n\n342\n00:14:49.040 --> 00:14:53.360\nwhy did they get celebrated? And how do I get celebrated next time? I want to\n\n343\n00:14:53.360 --> 00:14:53.680\nbe the one\n\n344\n00:14:53.680 --> 00:14:57.510\nthey can celebrate. What did they do? And you start to watch people follow,\n\n345\n00:14:57.510 --> 00:14:58.320\nespecially if they see\n\n346\n00:14:58.320 --> 00:15:03.220\nthe same kind of common thread of what someone in leadership is selling. You\n\n347\n00:15:03.220 --> 00:15:03.760\nunderstand, obviously,\n\n348\n00:15:03.760 --> 00:15:07.760\nthe power of recognition of it. That's exactly it. That's a bill. I'm not sure\n\n349\n00:15:07.760 --> 00:15:08.320\nit works in every\n\n350\n00:15:08.320 --> 00:15:12.240\norganization, but it sure works. I think it works everywhere. I think every\n\n351\n00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:12.800\npeople want to be\n\n352\n00:15:12.800 --> 00:15:17.230\nrecognized. But you know, so you got this bucket of productivity, you got this\n\n353\n00:15:17.230 --> 00:15:18.000\nbucket of growth.\n\n354\n00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:21.840\nWhat's the third bucket of growth in the core? And then I think the third is,\n\n355\n00:15:23.200 --> 00:15:26.960\nhow do you use AI to create net new business, which is another form of growth?\n\n356\n00:15:26.960 --> 00:15:27.920\nWhat are the\n\n357\n00:15:27.920 --> 00:15:31.660\nthings that I can do with AI that I might not have been able to do before? I\n\n358\n00:15:31.660 --> 00:15:33.280\nthink Yum did something\n\n359\n00:15:33.280 --> 00:15:35.800\nwith bite, which I thought was super interesting. And I don't know how\n\n360\n00:15:35.800 --> 00:15:36.800\nsuccessful it's been yet.\n\n361\n00:15:36.800 --> 00:15:40.580\nI don't know where it is. But this idea that we can create this operating\n\n362\n00:15:40.580 --> 00:15:41.760\nsystem that allows a\n\n363\n00:15:41.760 --> 00:15:47.280\nfranchisee's to effectively optimize that I've given them something that isn't\n\n364\n00:15:47.280 --> 00:15:49.920\nthe next best\n\n365\n00:15:49.920 --> 00:15:53.990\noffering or product. But I'm giving them a technology that allows them to,\n\n366\n00:15:53.990 --> 00:15:54.400\nwhether it's\n\n367\n00:15:54.400 --> 00:15:57.780\nthe market better, all of a sudden, and I can now take that and go from my\n\n368\n00:15:57.780 --> 00:15:58.800\nfranchisee's and now\n\n369\n00:15:58.800 --> 00:16:03.210\nI can go beyond my friend. That to me is a net new business. And so I think\n\n370\n00:16:03.210 --> 00:16:03.760\nwhat every\n\n371\n00:16:03.760 --> 00:16:07.240\norganization I start asking, what do I do? If I have all kinds of really\n\n372\n00:16:07.240 --> 00:16:08.800\ninteresting data\n\n373\n00:16:08.800 --> 00:16:13.120\non what's going on on an aircraft, do I start to use that data to create a\n\n374\n00:16:13.120 --> 00:16:13.680\nbusiness that\n\n375\n00:16:13.680 --> 00:16:16.960\nmight do something very like, how do I start to take this information that I\n\n376\n00:16:16.960 --> 00:16:18.000\nnever realized was\n\n377\n00:16:18.640 --> 00:16:24.080\nso interesting as a new business around AI that I create? And so I always think\n\n378\n00:16:24.080 --> 00:16:24.720\nof those three.\n\n379\n00:16:24.720 --> 00:16:29.810\nIt's how do I drive productivity, which is mostly about rebalancing or reall\n\n380\n00:16:29.810 --> 00:16:31.040\nocating.\n\n381\n00:16:31.040 --> 00:16:35.550\nHow do I figure out how to drive the core, the 1000 to 3000? And how do I\n\n382\n00:16:35.550 --> 00:16:36.560\ncreate a net new business\n\n383\n00:16:36.560 --> 00:16:40.580\nthat never would have been possible but for what I am able to do because I was\n\n384\n00:16:40.580 --> 00:16:41.520\nout in front?\n\n385\n00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:48.150\nWhat would be the one bit of advice you'd give to every leader that should help\n\n386\n00:16:48.150 --> 00:16:48.640\nthem win\n\n387\n00:16:48.640 --> 00:16:54.640\nin this new era that we're in? If you had to just pick one bit of advice.\n\n388\n00:16:54.640 --> 00:17:03.840\nI would find a way every week to explore some new AI technology in my life,\n\n389\n00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:04.640\nwhether it's in my\n\n390\n00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:08.880\npersonal life or whether it's in my professional life. Go listen to a podcast,\n\n391\n00:17:08.880 --> 00:17:09.520\nlearn about the\n\n392\n00:17:09.520 --> 00:17:13.280\ntech and then go experiment with it and see what it can do. One of the stories\n\n393\n00:17:13.280 --> 00:17:14.240\nI really found\n\n394\n00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:20.000\nquite fond of as a friend of mine, as a CEO of a very successful financial\n\n395\n00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:20.960\nservices company,\n\n396\n00:17:20.960 --> 00:17:27.120\nnot surprisingly happens to be a big golfer. He was trying to figure out why\n\n397\n00:17:27.120 --> 00:17:27.920\nthey fit him in a\n\n398\n00:17:27.920 --> 00:17:31.920\ncertain golf club with a certain shaft because nothing about that made sense\n\n399\n00:17:31.920 --> 00:17:33.120\ngiven his handicap\n\n400\n00:17:33.120 --> 00:17:39.200\netc. And he went to the various forms of the chat GPT or Gemini and I really\n\n401\n00:17:39.200 --> 00:17:40.000\nkind of got in and\n\n402\n00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:43.840\nasked it a thousand questions to kind of get to the place where it actually did\n\n403\n00:17:43.840 --> 00:17:45.040\nhelp him understand\n\n404\n00:17:45.040 --> 00:17:50.800\nwhy they'd gotten to. And it's a totally unimportant decision but it showed his\n\n405\n00:17:50.800 --> 00:17:51.680\nwillingness to be\n\n406\n00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:55.490\nopen to it and to learn from it and to use it in something that was important\n\n407\n00:17:55.490 --> 00:17:55.920\nto him\n\n408\n00:17:55.920 --> 00:17:59.650\nso that I promise you what he's going to do now is he's going to use that\n\n409\n00:17:59.650 --> 00:18:00.800\ntechnology and what you\n\n410\n00:18:00.800 --> 00:18:04.600\nknow he's prepping for a meeting with his team. He's going to ask it seven\n\n411\n00:18:04.600 --> 00:18:05.920\nquestions that you know\n\n412\n00:18:05.920 --> 00:18:08.820\nhe wants to be well informed about before he sees the team. It's just going to\n\n413\n00:18:08.820 --> 00:18:10.240\nhelp him be better at\n\n414\n00:18:10.240 --> 00:18:14.180\nwhat he does. That's great you know and thanks for going deep on this subject\n\n415\n00:18:14.180 --> 00:18:15.280\nbecause everybody\n\n416\n00:18:15.280 --> 00:18:19.360\nis really curious as to how to out of out of out of winning this environment\n\n417\n00:18:19.360 --> 00:18:20.400\nbut I want to shift gears\n\n418\n00:18:20.400 --> 00:18:27.450\nnow and move into your leadership and at the kids in your past you know and let\n\n419\n00:18:27.450 --> 00:18:28.320\n's start just with a\n\n420\n00:18:28.320 --> 00:18:31.520\nstory from your childhood that shaped the kind of leader you are today.\n\n421\n00:18:31.520 --> 00:18:36.960\nWe talked about this a little bit of the not giving up. There is no question my\n\n422\n00:18:36.960 --> 00:18:37.440\nparents\n\n423\n00:18:37.440 --> 00:18:40.620\nplayed a very formative role. I think really my father played a very formative\n\n424\n00:18:40.620 --> 00:18:41.200\nrole in kind of\n\n425\n00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:47.680\nthe person that I became. Both sort of gave me different attributes but I think\n\n426\n00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:49.040\nthe restlessness\n\n427\n00:18:49.040 --> 00:18:53.920\nhas been a large part because of things my father would do with me when I was\n\n428\n00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:54.160\nyoung. So\n\n429\n00:18:54.880 --> 00:18:58.240\nlike literally when I was two years old my dad decided that I was going to be a\n\n430\n00:18:58.240 --> 00:18:58.960\nprofessional baseball\n\n431\n00:18:58.960 --> 00:19:03.080\nplayer that obviously didn't happen and he taught me to switch hit and I\n\n432\n00:19:03.080 --> 00:19:04.240\nremember you know he'd come\n\n433\n00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:08.550\nto all my games and even the games that went extraordinary I remember there's\n\n434\n00:19:08.550 --> 00:19:09.360\none game it was\n\n435\n00:19:09.360 --> 00:19:12.840\nit got us into the league championship. I think I was a senior at the time. I\n\n436\n00:19:12.840 --> 00:19:14.240\nwent I had a great\n\n437\n00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:18.110\ngame. I mean I think I went for two for three and I think I think I had one RBI\n\n438\n00:19:18.110 --> 00:19:19.200\nand we went to one\n\n439\n00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:22.650\nand I scored one of the runs and they got through a guy out at second base and\n\n440\n00:19:22.650 --> 00:19:23.520\nI really felt like I\n\n441\n00:19:23.520 --> 00:19:27.760\ngot like I'm like I'm on top of the moon and I remember my father asking me a\n\n442\n00:19:27.760 --> 00:19:28.240\nquestion that when\n\n443\n00:19:28.240 --> 00:19:31.570\nsomething like you know Eric I don't really understand like why did you call\n\n444\n00:19:31.570 --> 00:19:32.640\nfor that pitch on that\n\n445\n00:19:32.640 --> 00:19:36.800\ncount and not part of the game right and it was like no matter how good it felt\n\n446\n00:19:36.800 --> 00:19:37.840\nin the moment it's\n\n447\n00:19:37.840 --> 00:19:42.730\nalways like you can be better you can you can aspire for greater still and I\n\n448\n00:19:42.730 --> 00:19:43.600\nthink that has been a\n\n449\n00:19:43.600 --> 00:19:48.420\nbig part of my leadership is I just never allowed the status quo or the reason\n\n450\n00:19:48.420 --> 00:19:49.520\nyou know because we\n\n451\n00:19:50.160 --> 00:19:55.040\nsomething is being done because that's the way we've always done it as kind of\n\n452\n00:19:55.040 --> 00:19:55.200\nsomething I'm\n\n453\n00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:59.770\nwilling to to let sit and and I think it came from all those experiences a lot\n\n454\n00:19:59.770 --> 00:20:00.480\nof those came from\n\n455\n00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:04.710\ngrowing up playing sports or growing up and and him always pushing like well\n\n456\n00:20:04.710 --> 00:20:05.600\nwhy what were you\n\n457\n00:20:05.600 --> 00:20:09.580\nthinking in that moment to really kind of help me think about well maybe there\n\n458\n00:20:09.580 --> 00:20:10.640\nwas a different way\n\n459\n00:20:10.640 --> 00:20:14.720\nand and that's I mean I think my poor teams that have had to suffer with me\n\n460\n00:20:14.720 --> 00:20:15.440\nthey will come forth\n\n461\n00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:17.750\nand say well we've done acts and I said well I don't understand it feels like\n\n462\n00:20:17.750 --> 00:20:18.320\nthat's what we\n\n463\n00:20:18.320 --> 00:20:21.600\nused to do but like why are we doing it that way and does that make sense given\n\n464\n00:20:21.600 --> 00:20:21.760\nthe\n\n465\n00:20:21.760 --> 00:20:27.200\nmission that we're on and inevitably you can push and you get to a different\n\n466\n00:20:27.200 --> 00:20:28.000\nand better place\n\n467\n00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:32.860\nbecause you don't you're not willing to accept the past as the as the marker of\n\n468\n00:20:32.860 --> 00:20:33.600\nthe future yeah\n\n469\n00:20:33.600 --> 00:20:37.840\nyou know that the best leaders typically have this healthy dissatisfaction with\n\n470\n00:20:37.840 --> 00:20:38.640\nit with the status\n\n471\n00:20:38.640 --> 00:20:44.300\nquo and and you know speaking of that your your father was a doctor and I\n\n472\n00:20:44.300 --> 00:20:45.920\nunderstand you wanted to\n\n473\n00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:52.670\nbe an orthopedic surgeon at one one point in time uh when was that moment you\n\n474\n00:20:52.670 --> 00:20:53.600\nrealized that that\n\n475\n00:20:53.600 --> 00:20:58.030\nwasn't going to be your path so you talked about early like how many how many\n\n476\n00:20:58.030 --> 00:20:58.880\nbroken bones that I\n\n477\n00:20:58.880 --> 00:21:02.460\nhave and as I said I stopped counting but I was in the orthopods office a lot\n\n478\n00:21:02.460 --> 00:21:02.960\nand I was\n\n479\n00:21:02.960 --> 00:21:07.040\nI love skiing and my orthopedic surgeon was the usg team doctor and I decided\n\n480\n00:21:07.040 --> 00:21:07.760\nkind of growing up\n\n481\n00:21:07.760 --> 00:21:11.770\naround medicine that that's what I wanted to do and I had oriented my entire\n\n482\n00:21:11.770 --> 00:21:13.680\nlife around that and\n\n483\n00:21:13.680 --> 00:21:17.040\nI was literally going to bed the night before I was taking the MCAT which for\n\n484\n00:21:17.040 --> 00:21:17.440\nthose that have\n\n485\n00:21:17.440 --> 00:21:21.220\nnever thought about medical school are the entrance exam but you would take the\n\n486\n00:21:21.220 --> 00:21:22.560\nSATs or the ACTs or\n\n487\n00:21:22.560 --> 00:21:27.600\nthe GREs for graduate school or the LSATs for law school and I went to bed that\n\n488\n00:21:27.600 --> 00:21:29.280\nnight probably\n\n489\n00:21:29.280 --> 00:21:32.560\npretty early I you know probably like 9 30 10 o'clock which is super early if\n\n490\n00:21:32.560 --> 00:21:33.760\nyou're in college not so\n\n491\n00:21:33.760 --> 00:21:38.680\nsuper early for me today and I woke up at like 1 30 in the morning I was\n\n492\n00:21:38.680 --> 00:21:40.480\nfinally ill like literally\n\n493\n00:21:40.480 --> 00:21:46.300\nyou know over the toilet violently ill I get uh I get back in bed I wake up at\n\n494\n00:21:46.300 --> 00:21:47.440\nlike 5 30 and I'm\n\n495\n00:21:47.440 --> 00:21:51.360\nviolently ill and at this point I said you know what I'm just going to get up I\n\n496\n00:21:51.360 --> 00:21:51.920\n'm going to get\n\n497\n00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:55.080\nshowered I'm going to get dressed I'm going to go meet my friends we're all\n\n498\n00:21:55.080 --> 00:21:56.000\nabout to have we're\n\n499\n00:21:56.000 --> 00:21:59.000\ngoing to get bagels at the bagel place across the street from where we're going\n\n500\n00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:00.000\nto take the MCATs\n\n501\n00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:05.520\nI had a red Cornell baseball hat and I had a green Patagonia fleece that was up\n\n502\n00:22:05.520 --> 00:22:06.160\nover my nose\n\n503\n00:22:06.160 --> 00:22:11.060\nbecause I was shivering I get into the exam I take my pencil and I open the\n\n504\n00:22:11.060 --> 00:22:12.240\nbook and\n\n505\n00:22:12.240 --> 00:22:17.460\nwithin five minutes I get violently ill and all over the exam when I get exc\n\n506\n00:22:17.460 --> 00:22:18.080\nused for being a\n\n507\n00:22:18.080 --> 00:22:21.690\ndisruption and that was like a really big moment not because I'd been sick by\n\n508\n00:22:21.690 --> 00:22:23.200\nthe way I felt fine\n\n509\n00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:28.130\nsix hours later it was because once you missed that window for the MCAT the\n\n510\n00:22:28.130 --> 00:22:29.280\nnext window wasn't\n\n511\n00:22:29.280 --> 00:22:32.560\nuntil I think August and that meant you really had to take another year and I\n\n512\n00:22:32.560 --> 00:22:33.600\nremember that\n\n513\n00:22:33.600 --> 00:22:38.560\nsummer I was doing a fellowship and and I called my dad and I was very nervous\n\n514\n00:22:38.560 --> 00:22:39.200\nabout calling him\n\n515\n00:22:39.200 --> 00:22:42.240\nbecause I felt like I was going to disappoint like we'd spent my whole life\n\n516\n00:22:42.240 --> 00:22:42.880\nkind of orienting\n\n517\n00:22:42.880 --> 00:22:48.360\ntowards this and he'd been a mentor and he was you know a doctor and so on and\n\n518\n00:22:48.360 --> 00:22:49.200\nand I said dad I\n\n519\n00:22:49.200 --> 00:22:52.650\ndon't think I'm going to go to medical school and he kind of said why and I\n\n520\n00:22:52.650 --> 00:22:53.680\nsaid I I'm doing a lot\n\n521\n00:22:53.680 --> 00:22:57.250\nof thinking over this summer and I don't think that's what I want to do I don't\n\n522\n00:22:57.250 --> 00:22:58.640\nthink it's I said\n\n523\n00:22:58.640 --> 00:23:02.760\neverything that I've enjoyed doing in school is not what I did in engineering\n\n524\n00:23:02.760 --> 00:23:03.840\nor not what I did in\n\n525\n00:23:03.840 --> 00:23:07.890\nthis class is to learn to be a doctor it's like everything I've done has had an\n\n526\n00:23:07.890 --> 00:23:09.200\nelement of leadership\n\n527\n00:23:09.200 --> 00:23:13.210\nand teamwork and I think I want to do that and he goes what does that look like\n\n528\n00:23:13.210 --> 00:23:14.240\nyou know I go I\n\n529\n00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:18.500\ndon't know and this is how I ended up McKinsey I said all my friends applied\n\n530\n00:23:18.500 --> 00:23:19.600\nfor jobs at McKinsey\n\n531\n00:23:19.600 --> 00:23:22.450\nlast year none of them got it maybe I'll apply to that and see if I can get one\n\n532\n00:23:22.450 --> 00:23:23.200\nbecause they you\n\n533\n00:23:23.200 --> 00:23:28.120\nknow just as a way to show them and that was a little bit of of how I changed\n\n534\n00:23:28.120 --> 00:23:28.560\ncourse and\n\n535\n00:23:28.560 --> 00:23:32.550\nand it you know it's funny he always had this expression um or has this\n\n536\n00:23:32.550 --> 00:23:34.000\nexpression which is\n\n537\n00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:38.050\nif you're a skier it's not how you groom the ski it's not how you scheme the\n\n538\n00:23:38.050 --> 00:23:38.720\ngroomers it's how\n\n539\n00:23:38.720 --> 00:23:41.470\nyou ski the bump runs or like how do you throw how do you hit the curveball\n\n540\n00:23:41.470 --> 00:23:42.400\nlike it's throwing at\n\n541\n00:23:42.400 --> 00:23:47.680\nyou and that was a real curveball for me hey describe the culture that was at\n\n542\n00:23:47.680 --> 00:23:48.480\nthe McKinsey back\n\n543\n00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:54.140\nthen you know I it was hard to get in obviously it was a culture cutthroat\n\n544\n00:23:54.140 --> 00:23:55.440\ncollaborative you know\n\n545\n00:23:55.440 --> 00:24:02.190\nwhat was it like I would say of my 28 plus years at the firm you know 90 plus\n\n546\n00:24:02.190 --> 00:24:02.800\npercent of it has\n\n547\n00:24:02.800 --> 00:24:08.010\nbeen super super collaborative and it's only moments and and it may be it's 95\n\n548\n00:24:08.010 --> 00:24:08.960\npercent there's\n\n549\n00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:11.670\na five percent of the window where the firm is not at its best and then you can\n\n550\n00:24:11.670 --> 00:24:12.240\nget a little bit\n\n551\n00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:14.990\ncutthroat people feel like they're competing but it's one of the things I've\n\n552\n00:24:14.990 --> 00:24:16.000\nalways loved about our\n\n553\n00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:22.100\nfirm is we celebrate team we celebrate collective we don't celebrate individual\n\n554\n00:24:22.100 --> 00:24:24.320\nand there's also\n\n555\n00:24:24.320 --> 00:24:27.880\nit's not like there's one senior partner it's not like there's you know you go\n\n556\n00:24:27.880 --> 00:24:28.480\nto a corporation\n\n557\n00:24:28.480 --> 00:24:32.410\nthere's one CEO there's you know in our case the managing partner is the first\n\n558\n00:24:32.410 --> 00:24:33.200\namong equals\n\n559\n00:24:33.200 --> 00:24:38.470\nright you know there we're all peers in kind of how we lead and so that's a\n\n560\n00:24:38.470 --> 00:24:39.600\nvery big difference\n\n561\n00:24:39.600 --> 00:24:42.670\nand so as a result there's not there's you know we always thought about\n\n562\n00:24:42.670 --> 00:24:44.240\nelecting another partner is\n\n563\n00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:47.350\nwe have this incredible table where there's 11 of us sitting there and we've\n\n564\n00:24:47.350 --> 00:24:48.240\ncreated this great\n\n565\n00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:51.170\nfeast and or we if someone else bring in something to the table that is going\n\n566\n00:24:51.170 --> 00:24:52.160\nto be additive and if\n\n567\n00:24:52.160 --> 00:24:55.610\nthey are we want to invite them and so there's sort of this limitless you know\n\n568\n00:24:55.610 --> 00:24:56.640\nappetite for\n\n569\n00:24:56.640 --> 00:25:00.520\ninviting more to join the party as long as they are bringing something that it\n\n570\n00:25:00.520 --> 00:25:01.680\nthat makes us\n\n571\n00:25:01.680 --> 00:25:06.600\nbetter or not does bigger and I think as a result I just never felt like I was\n\n572\n00:25:06.600 --> 00:25:07.600\never competing with\n\n573\n00:25:07.600 --> 00:25:12.170\nsomeone inside the firm but rather I was collaborating in fact I have found one\n\n574\n00:25:12.170 --> 00:25:12.880\nof the things I really\n\n575\n00:25:12.880 --> 00:25:16.200\nand I really put emphasis on this is team-based sports and folks that have\n\n576\n00:25:16.200 --> 00:25:17.360\nlearned how to succeed\n\n577\n00:25:17.360 --> 00:25:22.240\nin the team I think do extraordinarily well and what we do because we are I\n\n578\n00:25:22.240 --> 00:25:22.880\nmean every day you're\n\n579\n00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:25.760\nworking in a team that team you know you know you know someone has to pick up\n\n580\n00:25:25.760 --> 00:25:26.960\nyou make a mistake\n\n581\n00:25:26.960 --> 00:25:29.670\nit's not that person to make a mistake it's what do we all do to kind of make\n\n582\n00:25:29.670 --> 00:25:30.560\nthat mistake and\n\n583\n00:25:30.560 --> 00:25:33.920\nit's a lot like when you play on a team sport it's not anyone individuals fault\n\n584\n00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:34.720\nin that moment\n\n585\n00:25:34.720 --> 00:25:38.820\nit's what everything that led up to that moment that got there and so I you\n\n586\n00:25:38.820 --> 00:25:39.760\nknow that expression of\n\n587\n00:25:39.760 --> 00:25:43.320\nyou're only as strong as your weakest link I really believe in and so it has\n\n588\n00:25:43.320 --> 00:25:44.400\nalways been about how\n\n589\n00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:49.620\ndo you build the links around you to be so everyone is better hello everyone I\n\n590\n00:25:49.620 --> 00:25:50.720\nhope you are loving\n\n591\n00:25:50.720 --> 00:25:55.640\nthis episode with David and Eric as always stay tuned to the very end of the\n\n592\n00:25:55.640 --> 00:25:56.320\nepisode when David\n\n593\n00:25:56.320 --> 00:26:00.530\nand I debrief the conversation that he's having with Eric will give you a few\n\n594\n00:26:00.530 --> 00:26:01.680\npractical tangible\n\n595\n00:26:01.680 --> 00:26:05.550\ntakeaways that you can apply right away to your leadership to your work and to\n\n596\n00:26:05.550 --> 00:26:06.560\nyour life so stay\n\n597\n00:26:06.560 --> 00:26:11.510\ntuned to the very end of the episode and I will see you at the debrief so here\n\n598\n00:26:11.510 --> 00:26:13.600\nyou are you you\n\n599\n00:26:13.600 --> 00:26:18.160\nyou're a collaborator you believe in collaboration you also just described a\n\n600\n00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:19.040\nlittle bit earlier about\n\n601\n00:26:19.040 --> 00:26:23.180\nhow competitive you I mean you know obviously you're competitive you know you\n\n602\n00:26:23.180 --> 00:26:24.720\nyou get a special cast\n\n603\n00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:29.640\nand you talked about all this animalistic behavior that you have how did you\n\n604\n00:26:29.640 --> 00:26:31.520\nmanage the the balance\n\n605\n00:26:31.520 --> 00:26:38.270\nbetween being collaborative and competitive and how to differentiate yourself\n\n606\n00:26:38.270 --> 00:26:39.120\nfrom others in the\n\n607\n00:26:39.120 --> 00:26:43.000\nfirm the first part's easy the second part of that I'm not sure I have a great\n\n608\n00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:43.680\nanswer for\n\n609\n00:26:43.680 --> 00:26:47.960\nand by the way I don't know that I always did this well I think some of this\n\n610\n00:26:47.960 --> 00:26:48.480\nhas been\n\n611\n00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:52.900\nas I've gotten more and more comfortable on my own skin and more comfortable\n\n612\n00:26:52.900 --> 00:26:54.320\nwhere I am in life\n\n613\n00:26:54.320 --> 00:26:58.560\nmore than anything else but you know it's funny I think leadership in maybe and\n\n614\n00:26:58.560 --> 00:26:58.880\npart of this is\n\n615\n00:26:58.880 --> 00:27:01.590\ngetting more comfortable in life is as you're as you progress in life you know\n\n616\n00:27:01.590 --> 00:27:02.640\nI had this incredible\n\n617\n00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:06.200\nand you you'll know and Ron Daniel you'll remember him from yeah he was on my\n\n618\n00:27:06.200 --> 00:27:07.840\nboard yeah okay so Ron\n\n619\n00:27:07.840 --> 00:27:11.780\nI think it's an amazing amazing guy you just have this expression which is you\n\n620\n00:27:11.780 --> 00:27:12.960\nhave to age in the\n\n621\n00:27:12.960 --> 00:27:17.370\nbottle right and one of the most unnatural things that I think sometimes we\n\n622\n00:27:17.370 --> 00:27:18.640\nmake people do is they\n\n623\n00:27:18.640 --> 00:27:21.370\nlead before they're ready they lead before they're comfortable in their own\n\n624\n00:27:21.370 --> 00:27:23.360\nskin and for me\n\n625\n00:27:23.360 --> 00:27:27.520\nand by the way I think it takes time you can't rush it like there's no process\n\n626\n00:27:27.520 --> 00:27:28.000\nto make that\n\n627\n00:27:28.000 --> 00:27:31.740\nwine better in the short term it just takes time for it to kind of run its\n\n628\n00:27:31.740 --> 00:27:32.720\nprocess it's why I\n\n629\n00:27:32.720 --> 00:27:36.980\nthe wisdom comes with age because it comes with experience and you can you can\n\n630\n00:27:36.980 --> 00:27:38.160\nbe super smart\n\n631\n00:27:38.160 --> 00:27:41.920\nyou can be an incredible leader but you need time to let those things happen\n\n632\n00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:43.360\nand by the way you\n\n633\n00:27:43.360 --> 00:27:47.450\nhave to have lived through failure you know I don't think you can become your\n\n634\n00:27:47.450 --> 00:27:48.320\nbest self-till\n\n635\n00:27:48.320 --> 00:27:52.840\nyou've lived through real failure and it's when you're faced with that failure\n\n636\n00:27:52.840 --> 00:27:53.440\nyou have to decide\n\n637\n00:27:53.440 --> 00:27:57.320\nwhat you're going to do and are you going to push yourself through that moment\n\n638\n00:27:57.320 --> 00:27:58.320\nof failure it's why\n\n639\n00:27:58.320 --> 00:28:02.340\nI love athletes right even the championship team has had failure moments in the\n\n640\n00:28:02.340 --> 00:28:03.120\ncourse of what\n\n641\n00:28:03.120 --> 00:28:06.960\nthey've done they've had to decide they're going to persevere through one of\n\n642\n00:28:06.960 --> 00:28:07.920\nthe things I often\n\n643\n00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:10.970\ngot criticized for is maybe having too much ambition which is back to your\n\n644\n00:28:10.970 --> 00:28:11.760\npoint about being\n\n645\n00:28:11.760 --> 00:28:16.680\ncompetitive and it's funny I never thought of the ambition for myself but I\n\n646\n00:28:16.680 --> 00:28:17.760\nalways thought about\n\n647\n00:28:17.760 --> 00:28:23.600\nfor institutionally or what we were doing as that team whether that team was an\n\n648\n00:28:23.600 --> 00:28:25.200\noffice or a sector\n\n649\n00:28:26.080 --> 00:28:30.000\nand and not everyone always understood that but I didn't understand why anyone\n\n650\n00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:30.640\nwould ever and by\n\n651\n00:28:30.640 --> 00:28:33.440\nthe way this was part of my own learnings is it doesn't always resonate ever\n\n652\n00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:34.640\nknows if I got asked\n\n653\n00:28:34.640 --> 00:28:39.050\na question and I had a very for me it was a large sizable leadership role when\n\n654\n00:28:39.050 --> 00:28:39.840\nI was too young to\n\n655\n00:28:39.840 --> 00:28:42.980\nprobably be in it or too inexperienced to be in it and I stood up in front of\n\n656\n00:28:42.980 --> 00:28:43.840\nthe group and I said\n\n657\n00:28:43.840 --> 00:28:48.760\nhere's what winning looks like and one of my partners said Eric why would like\n\n658\n00:28:48.760 --> 00:28:49.600\nwhy does winning\n\n659\n00:28:49.600 --> 00:28:53.290\nmatter and I literally think I said something like I don't understand the\n\n660\n00:28:53.290 --> 00:28:54.320\nquestion that doesn't\n\n661\n00:28:54.320 --> 00:28:58.080\ncompute like do you want to be do you not well like I don't because that's just\n\n662\n00:28:58.080 --> 00:28:58.640\nhow like you\n\n663\n00:28:58.640 --> 00:29:02.090\nalways grew up that and the reality is that doesn't speak to everyone right not\n\n664\n00:29:02.090 --> 00:29:02.960\neveryone kind of\n\n665\n00:29:02.960 --> 00:29:07.880\noriented that way and so the ambition that I had for us collectively didn't\n\n666\n00:29:07.880 --> 00:29:08.720\nresonate with\n\n667\n00:29:08.720 --> 00:29:12.150\nwith others and so therefore a guy they got placed on me and that was that was\n\n668\n00:29:12.150 --> 00:29:13.440\na real lesson about\n\n669\n00:29:13.440 --> 00:29:16.880\nhow you have to lead to bring others and figure out what it is that motivates\n\n670\n00:29:16.880 --> 00:29:18.080\nthem because what\n\n671\n00:29:18.080 --> 00:29:20.910\nmotivates me is not them and by the way that's a hard thing to do because you\n\n672\n00:29:20.910 --> 00:29:21.680\nhave to be true to\n\n673\n00:29:21.680 --> 00:29:25.920\nyourself as a leader but you have to recognize that what you're doing is not\n\n674\n00:29:25.920 --> 00:29:26.400\nalways going to be\n\n675\n00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:31.320\nthe inviting thing to someone else you know the failure thing I think is real I\n\n676\n00:29:31.320 --> 00:29:32.720\nand I think as\n\n677\n00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:35.790\nyou get more comfortable in your own skin you're probably more willing to\n\n678\n00:29:35.790 --> 00:29:36.880\nrecognize the failure\n\n679\n00:29:36.880 --> 00:29:43.630\nand to take learnings from the failure and your biggest failure I've talked\n\n680\n00:29:43.630 --> 00:29:44.720\nabout this a lot and\n\n681\n00:29:44.720 --> 00:29:48.410\nit's this a hard one for me because you know so before I was in this role I was\n\n682\n00:29:48.410 --> 00:29:49.200\na CFO of the firm\n\n683\n00:29:50.080 --> 00:29:55.000\nand I thought I had I mean if you I didn't I didn't want to be the CFO of the\n\n684\n00:29:55.000 --> 00:29:55.680\nfirm I was\n\n685\n00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:59.170\nasked to be the CEO of the firm CFO of the firm and I did it because I've\n\n686\n00:29:59.170 --> 00:30:00.160\nalways been a good\n\n687\n00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:03.550\nsoldier and when you know when the leader asked you to do something you figure\n\n688\n00:30:03.550 --> 00:30:04.640\nit's in the collective\n\n689\n00:30:04.640 --> 00:30:07.920\nbest interest and so you do it and part of the reason I didn't want to do it is\n\n690\n00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:08.560\nI wasn't excited\n\n691\n00:30:08.560 --> 00:30:11.000\nabout the role but part of the reason is I didn't think I was going to learn a\n\n692\n00:30:11.000 --> 00:30:11.840\nlot in the role like\n\n693\n00:30:11.840 --> 00:30:15.680\nI thought I kind of knew the skills and I built the skills that were required\n\n694\n00:30:15.680 --> 00:30:16.880\nto be successful in that\n\n695\n00:30:16.880 --> 00:30:21.800\nrole and my failure was there's the what you do but how you change an\n\n696\n00:30:21.800 --> 00:30:23.520\norganization of this size\n\n697\n00:30:23.520 --> 00:30:28.360\nand get them to believe in the why and then the how you bring them along I\n\n698\n00:30:28.360 --> 00:30:29.040\nfailed miserably at\n\n699\n00:30:29.040 --> 00:30:32.650\nthat there are things that I definitely had wrong on the what but that wasn't\n\n700\n00:30:32.650 --> 00:30:33.520\nthe real problem\n\n701\n00:30:33.520 --> 00:30:36.380\nthe problem was the organization didn't believe my partners didn't believe in\n\n702\n00:30:36.380 --> 00:30:37.040\nwhat we were doing\n\n703\n00:30:37.040 --> 00:30:41.130\nthey didn't understand it they didn't and the result is when it didn't go the\n\n704\n00:30:41.130 --> 00:30:41.760\nright way\n\n705\n00:30:42.800 --> 00:30:46.360\nI was the one to blame because I hadn't kind of gotten the buy-in and gotten\n\n706\n00:30:46.360 --> 00:30:47.280\nwhat were you trying\n\n707\n00:30:47.280 --> 00:30:50.880\nto do there were a lot of things we were trying to do we were trying to\n\n708\n00:30:50.880 --> 00:30:52.400\nintroduce new capabilities to\n\n709\n00:30:52.400 --> 00:30:57.320\nthe firm and get them to scale at a pace that they hadn't in the past we were\n\n710\n00:30:57.320 --> 00:30:58.320\ndoing that through\n\n711\n00:30:58.320 --> 00:31:02.060\nelements of M&A that we had not ever really succeeded in the past and we were\n\n712\n00:31:02.060 --> 00:31:02.720\nnot that the\n\n713\n00:31:02.720 --> 00:31:05.870\nend of them were big but there were more of them we probably did more\n\n714\n00:31:05.870 --> 00:31:07.200\nacquisitions in a three or\n\n715\n00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:11.150\nfour year period than we'd done in the history of the firm by a factor of three\n\n716\n00:31:11.150 --> 00:31:12.320\nor four and the\n\n717\n00:31:12.320 --> 00:31:16.490\nfirms a hundred years old so it was a real change we were trying to do things\n\n718\n00:31:16.490 --> 00:31:18.400\naround new innovative\n\n719\n00:31:18.400 --> 00:31:23.680\neconomic models and and how we better align what we're doing with our clients\n\n720\n00:31:23.680 --> 00:31:25.200\nand and by the way\n\n721\n00:31:25.200 --> 00:31:28.130\npart of that was helping people to understand the why we were trying to do it\n\n722\n00:31:28.130 --> 00:31:28.960\nwhich I failed at\n\n723\n00:31:28.960 --> 00:31:34.700\nmiserably it was a super humbling experience I had I think I went into that\n\n724\n00:31:34.700 --> 00:31:37.520\nrole you know as well\n\n725\n00:31:37.520 --> 00:31:43.340\nliked as anyone and I came out of that role really in a bad spot for the first\n\n726\n00:31:43.340 --> 00:31:44.320\ntime in my\n\n727\n00:31:44.320 --> 00:31:48.820\n28 years I felt pretty unwelcome when I show up for a meeting how do you get it\n\n728\n00:31:48.820 --> 00:31:50.000\nas you get out\n\n729\n00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:53.800\nget through that I mean as a leader it was hard I mean I had friends that\n\n730\n00:31:53.800 --> 00:31:55.120\nreally I had some I had\n\n731\n00:31:55.120 --> 00:32:00.040\ntwo friends in particular who I think really helped me they listened a lot they\n\n732\n00:32:00.040 --> 00:32:00.880\ncoached me through\n\n733\n00:32:00.880 --> 00:32:05.170\nI had a moment which I think was the beginning of the healing process with my\n\n734\n00:32:05.170 --> 00:32:06.480\npartners where\n\n735\n00:32:07.360 --> 00:32:11.480\nyou know our managing partner had just been reelected it had been a contentious\n\n736\n00:32:11.480 --> 00:32:12.400\nelection to say the\n\n737\n00:32:12.400 --> 00:32:17.320\nleast and the first meeting we had afterwards was in Copenhagen the managing\n\n738\n00:32:17.320 --> 00:32:18.160\npartner asked me if I\n\n739\n00:32:18.160 --> 00:32:20.740\nwould open the meeting to talk about how we're doing and I was like you're out\n\n740\n00:32:20.740 --> 00:32:21.280\nof your mind\n\n741\n00:32:21.280 --> 00:32:25.590\nlike why like I'm the CFO like this is a moment for you to stand up and for you\n\n742\n00:32:25.590 --> 00:32:26.160\nto kind of\n\n743\n00:32:26.160 --> 00:32:30.160\nbring everyone together and like no one likes me right now and I don't have any\n\n744\n00:32:30.160 --> 00:32:30.560\nparticularly\n\n745\n00:32:30.560 --> 00:32:34.370\ngreat news to share so like why would you possibly throw me up there to set up\n\n746\n00:32:34.370 --> 00:32:35.520\nthis meeting which\n\n747\n00:32:35.520 --> 00:32:38.870\nis going to be down the next three days and the tone is going to get set in the\n\n748\n00:32:38.870 --> 00:32:39.840\nfirst 40 minutes\n\n749\n00:32:39.840 --> 00:32:43.920\nand he goes Eric I just need you to do it and now whether he was just so much\n\n750\n00:32:43.920 --> 00:32:44.640\nsmarter than me or\n\n751\n00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:47.690\nhe figured out that I was going to who the hell knows why I remember sitting\n\n752\n00:32:47.690 --> 00:32:48.480\nthere and I have this\n\n753\n00:32:48.480 --> 00:32:52.560\nincredible business analyst who worked full-time for me at the time and I said\n\n754\n00:32:52.560 --> 00:32:53.600\nwe have to figure\n\n755\n00:32:53.600 --> 00:32:56.150\nout something we were working on the charts and one day we had this epiphany\n\n756\n00:32:56.150 --> 00:32:57.600\nwhich is I was going\n\n757\n00:32:57.600 --> 00:33:00.880\nto walk up on stage and it went something like this I literally we do our\n\n758\n00:33:00.880 --> 00:33:02.560\nmeetings in the round so\n\n759\n00:33:02.560 --> 00:33:06.250\nit doesn't feel quite as large and it feels like you're kind of immersed in\n\n760\n00:33:06.250 --> 00:33:07.120\nwith your partners\n\n761\n00:33:07.120 --> 00:33:12.000\nand so you've got this kind of stadium seating around this the circle and it\n\n762\n00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:12.400\nworks well for me\n\n763\n00:33:12.400 --> 00:33:16.300\nbecause I talk with my hands as you can see and I pace a lot and I have this\n\n764\n00:33:16.300 --> 00:33:18.000\nmicrophone I call it\n\n765\n00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:22.920\nmy Madonna mic and the music stops and I'm now walking out of my seat and up on\n\n766\n00:33:22.920 --> 00:33:24.080\nstage and I turn\n\n767\n00:33:24.080 --> 00:33:27.860\nto my partners and I say look let's just call a spade a spade this relation but\n\n768\n00:33:27.860 --> 00:33:28.560\nit ain't been\n\n769\n00:33:28.560 --> 00:33:33.840\nworking for a while so I bought you all a gift and I said so I'd like you to\n\n770\n00:33:33.840 --> 00:33:34.720\nall reach underneath\n\n771\n00:33:34.720 --> 00:33:40.190\nyour chairs and there's a gift and they all pulled out a stressful like one of\n\n772\n00:33:40.190 --> 00:33:41.200\nthose little blue\n\n773\n00:33:41.200 --> 00:33:46.100\nstress balls that you squeeze and I said before you all say cut your why the\n\n774\n00:33:46.100 --> 00:33:46.720\nhell would you buy\n\n775\n00:33:46.720 --> 00:33:52.400\nme a stress ball that's not the gift but on the count of three I want you to\n\n776\n00:33:52.400 --> 00:33:53.680\nall stand up and I\n\n777\n00:33:53.680 --> 00:33:57.560\nwant you to throw that ball at me and I went one two and I said stop and I went\n\n778\n00:33:57.560 --> 00:33:58.560\nand I grabbed my\n\n779\n00:33:58.560 --> 00:34:03.480\ncatcher's mask I put my catcher's mask on and three three thousand balls came p\n\n780\n00:34:03.480 --> 00:34:04.560\nummeling down on\n\n781\n00:34:04.560 --> 00:34:10.800\nstage in this moment where everything started to heal itself again and I had a\n\n782\n00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:12.240\nlot of people\n\n783\n00:34:12.240 --> 00:34:17.160\ntold me you can't do that it's the wrong tone but I was just kind of me right I\n\n784\n00:34:17.160 --> 00:34:18.480\nit was kind of my\n\n785\n00:34:18.480 --> 00:34:24.140\nway of saying to the partners like I get it you need you need to be able to let\n\n786\n00:34:24.140 --> 00:34:25.760\nit out before we\n\n787\n00:34:25.760 --> 00:34:28.890\ncan move forward and then we can decide if we're going to move forward but\n\n788\n00:34:28.890 --> 00:34:29.920\nthere's no chance we're\n\n789\n00:34:29.920 --> 00:34:34.330\ngoing to get there unless we do that that's a great great story you know and\n\n790\n00:34:34.330 --> 00:34:35.120\nyou know people\n\n791\n00:34:35.120 --> 00:34:40.040\nknow McKinsey is a great consulting firm obviously but tell me a story that\n\n792\n00:34:40.040 --> 00:34:41.760\nwould give everyone a\n\n793\n00:34:41.760 --> 00:34:48.810\nbetter sense of what McKinsey looks like at its best from discovery to the\n\n794\n00:34:48.810 --> 00:34:50.160\nfinal deliverables for\n\n795\n00:34:50.160 --> 00:34:54.170\na client I think when we're at our best you can't tell who's McKinsey and who's\n\n796\n00:34:54.170 --> 00:34:54.880\nthe client\n\n797\n00:34:54.880 --> 00:35:02.160\nthat when we're on best we are literally working from the CEO's office all the\n\n798\n00:35:02.160 --> 00:35:02.880\nway down to the\n\n799\n00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:07.800\nfront line that we are collectively as a team set on a set of objectives like\n\n800\n00:35:07.800 --> 00:35:08.560\nthat man on the\n\n801\n00:35:08.560 --> 00:35:11.910\nmoon moment where we've set something that we know and thought was possible as\n\n802\n00:35:11.910 --> 00:35:12.560\nan objective\n\n803\n00:35:12.560 --> 00:35:17.760\nand that we are working tirelessly to achieve it that everyone from the front\n\n804\n00:35:17.760 --> 00:35:18.400\nline of the client\n\n805\n00:35:18.400 --> 00:35:22.090\nto that scene literally at the end say we would never have gotten there but for\n\n806\n00:35:22.090 --> 00:35:23.920\nand as one client\n\n807\n00:35:23.920 --> 00:35:27.070\nonce said to me it was the first time we ever worked together he goes I never\n\n808\n00:35:27.070 --> 00:35:28.160\nworked with the firm\n\n809\n00:35:28.160 --> 00:35:33.890\nand while this effort may be coming to an end I now understand kind of why what\n\n810\n00:35:33.890 --> 00:35:34.800\nyou do is so\n\n811\n00:35:35.360 --> 00:35:40.580\nmagical and I think of this much more as the end of the beginning because I\n\n812\n00:35:40.580 --> 00:35:41.120\nknow we're going to do\n\n813\n00:35:41.120 --> 00:35:45.130\na lot of great that it was just that's what it feels like and it feels like a\n\n814\n00:35:45.130 --> 00:35:46.240\nselfless team who\n\n815\n00:35:46.240 --> 00:35:50.320\nis willing to do everything to make this organization better that you care\n\n816\n00:35:50.320 --> 00:35:51.280\nabout one of the things I've\n\n817\n00:35:51.280 --> 00:35:54.970\nalways loved about it's hard because when you when you when you serve a client\n\n818\n00:35:54.970 --> 00:35:56.000\nyou serve a client the\n\n819\n00:35:56.000 --> 00:36:00.940\nlevel of of intimacy that we get a chance to do it often you actually become\n\n820\n00:36:00.940 --> 00:36:02.320\npart of that institution\n\n821\n00:36:02.320 --> 00:36:07.240\nlike I root for that organization for decades to come I often will describe it\n\n822\n00:36:07.240 --> 00:36:08.960\nas we not as like\n\n823\n00:36:08.960 --> 00:36:12.710\nthey because I feel as accountable and I feel like when things aren't going\n\n824\n00:36:12.710 --> 00:36:14.000\nwell I want to be like\n\n825\n00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:18.480\nyou really get you really become a part of that fabric in a in a way that\n\n826\n00:36:18.480 --> 00:36:23.890\nis felt and and and it really I've watched it I've watched it when the client\n\n827\n00:36:23.890 --> 00:36:24.720\ndoesn't know who's the\n\n828\n00:36:24.720 --> 00:36:30.950\nclient who's mckenzie yeah you know it's I got a confession to make here uh you\n\n829\n00:36:30.950 --> 00:36:32.160\nknow I I ran marketing\n\n830\n00:36:32.160 --> 00:36:37.370\nat uh at pizza hot we had very little low budget couldn't really afford\n\n831\n00:36:37.370 --> 00:36:39.200\nconsultants and then I got\n\n832\n00:36:39.200 --> 00:36:44.090\npromoted to be the executive VP of uh marketing sales for a Pepsi Cola company\n\n833\n00:36:44.090 --> 00:36:45.680\nand I went in and\n\n834\n00:36:45.680 --> 00:36:50.300\nwe had a huge marketing department obviously and everywhere I looked there was\n\n835\n00:36:50.300 --> 00:36:51.440\na consultant and I\n\n836\n00:36:51.440 --> 00:36:57.140\nwas like what do you do because we had all these consultants running around you\n\n837\n00:36:57.140 --> 00:36:58.560\nknow doing what I\n\n838\n00:36:58.560 --> 00:37:05.610\nthought was the job of the person that was in the job okay and I I got this\n\n839\n00:37:05.610 --> 00:37:10.240\nbelief that that many\n\n840\n00:37:10.240 --> 00:37:14.190\npeople who hire consultants are just lazy they they don't do their own own\n\n841\n00:37:14.190 --> 00:37:18.080\nthinking and so I you\n\n842\n00:37:18.080 --> 00:37:24.150\nknow then I end up running young brands and we're also you know very frugal I\n\n843\n00:37:24.150 --> 00:37:25.840\nmean I had this\n\n844\n00:37:25.840 --> 00:37:30.760\ndid I had this phrase if it looks like consultant did his start over I had it I\n\n845\n00:37:30.760 --> 00:37:31.760\nhad all this you\n\n846\n00:37:31.760 --> 00:37:38.050\nknow disdain for consultants and then you know we did end up using consultants\n\n847\n00:37:38.050 --> 00:37:39.120\na couple of times\n\n848\n00:37:39.120 --> 00:37:44.560\nI'd be curious as to what your reaction is to that and and when should you hire\n\n849\n00:37:44.560 --> 00:37:45.920\na consultant\n\n850\n00:37:45.920 --> 00:37:51.680\nbecause I know you're a pretty avid golfer do you have a coach uh I have had\n\n851\n00:37:51.680 --> 00:37:52.880\nyou coaches\n\n852\n00:37:52.880 --> 00:37:58.720\nI think it's pretty hard to find a great athlete that doesn't have a team\n\n853\n00:37:58.720 --> 00:37:59.360\naround them\n\n854\n00:37:59.360 --> 00:38:03.600\nright and usually that involves there's someone that's helping them from the\n\n855\n00:38:03.600 --> 00:38:04.160\nmental and there's\n\n856\n00:38:04.160 --> 00:38:06.960\nsomeone that's helping them train physically and there's someone that kind of\n\n857\n00:38:06.960 --> 00:38:07.920\nis an expert in\n\n858\n00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:12.940\nif we take golf the swing or the short game or the and we would criticize them\n\n859\n00:38:12.940 --> 00:38:14.160\nonly if they don't\n\n860\n00:38:14.160 --> 00:38:19.080\nhave that team around them and I think a big part of what we are is we are we\n\n861\n00:38:19.080 --> 00:38:20.560\nare that team around\n\n862\n00:38:20.560 --> 00:38:25.600\nthe great athletes to help make them better um and part of that is no matter\n\n863\n00:38:25.600 --> 00:38:26.720\nhow good you are\n\n864\n00:38:26.720 --> 00:38:32.790\nyou don't see what's going on and you know and it's little things that make all\n\n865\n00:38:32.790 --> 00:38:33.360\nthe difference\n\n866\n00:38:33.360 --> 00:38:37.920\nright it's the way I approach that particular shot or it's the the way I've\n\n867\n00:38:37.920 --> 00:38:38.640\nkind of worked my\n\n868\n00:38:38.640 --> 00:38:42.330\nswing to get and it's no matter what you can't do it and and you need someone\n\n869\n00:38:42.330 --> 00:38:43.200\nby your side and so\n\n870\n00:38:43.200 --> 00:38:47.710\nI think a lot of what we do is we are the coach for the great athlete because\n\n871\n00:38:47.710 --> 00:38:48.480\nthe teams that\n\n872\n00:38:48.480 --> 00:38:51.810\nthe clients we work for are great companies and they're doing extraordinarily\n\n873\n00:38:51.810 --> 00:38:53.760\nwell most of the time\n\n874\n00:38:53.760 --> 00:38:57.180\nand you've got incredible leadership teams who are leading some of the most\n\n875\n00:38:57.180 --> 00:38:58.320\nimportant institutions\n\n876\n00:38:58.320 --> 00:39:01.710\non earth of course these are some of the most capable people you've ever\n\n877\n00:39:01.710 --> 00:39:03.920\nencountered but so is\n\n878\n00:39:03.920 --> 00:39:07.980\nyou know so are the LA Dodgers or so are you know so are you know pick your\n\n879\n00:39:07.980 --> 00:39:09.360\nfavorite college football\n\n880\n00:39:09.360 --> 00:39:14.240\nteam but yet you know all those athletes and all those Olympians tend to have\n\n881\n00:39:14.240 --> 00:39:14.560\npeople that are\n\n882\n00:39:14.560 --> 00:39:19.780\nhelping them perfect their craft and I think that's a big part of what we end\n\n883\n00:39:19.780 --> 00:39:20.880\nup doing certainly as\n\n884\n00:39:20.880 --> 00:39:24.780\nsenior members my experience has always been and I've had some of my clients I\n\n885\n00:39:24.780 --> 00:39:25.680\n've served for the\n\n886\n00:39:25.680 --> 00:39:30.890\nmajority if not all of my career it's very hard to bring someone in that doesn\n\n887\n00:39:30.890 --> 00:39:32.320\n't know the organization\n\n888\n00:39:32.320 --> 00:39:35.920\nthat doesn't know the team that doesn't that for which you have to build trust\n\n889\n00:39:35.920 --> 00:39:37.920\num because those\n\n890\n00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:42.840\nthings to do that to take the leaps of faith that we as a firm and we as\n\n891\n00:39:42.840 --> 00:39:43.840\nconsultants will push\n\n892\n00:39:43.840 --> 00:39:48.390\norganizations to do is a leap of faith it is you have to really have trust in\n\n893\n00:39:48.390 --> 00:39:48.960\nthat person that\n\n894\n00:39:48.960 --> 00:39:52.240\nthey have your best interest I don't think that works well transactionally my\n\n895\n00:39:52.240 --> 00:39:53.200\nphilosophy has always\n\n896\n00:39:53.200 --> 00:39:57.610\nbeen I am extraordinary long-term urgent with my clients as I said I've served\n\n897\n00:39:57.610 --> 00:39:58.880\none client for 28\n\n898\n00:39:58.880 --> 00:40:02.810\nplus years and there are times when we're not engaged at all there were times\n\n899\n00:40:02.810 --> 00:40:03.680\nwe were thrown\n\n900\n00:40:03.680 --> 00:40:07.600\nout of the building but that didn't stop me from meeting with the executives\n\n901\n00:40:07.600 --> 00:40:08.480\nand ensuring that I\n\n902\n00:40:08.480 --> 00:40:12.040\nalways kind of knew and provide a perspective and when the time was right and\n\n903\n00:40:12.040 --> 00:40:12.880\nthat time was the\n\n904\n00:40:12.880 --> 00:40:16.660\norganization was ready that executive was ready we would really be there to\n\n905\n00:40:16.660 --> 00:40:17.760\nwork side by side with\n\n906\n00:40:17.760 --> 00:40:21.040\nthem to get to a mission that they didn't think was possible and when there\n\n907\n00:40:21.040 --> 00:40:22.720\nwasn't we would still\n\n908\n00:40:22.720 --> 00:40:26.130\nbe around or if certain of us would certainly be still be around and I think\n\n909\n00:40:26.130 --> 00:40:27.200\nthat's really it is\n\n910\n00:40:27.200 --> 00:40:31.130\nyou know you you have to build folks around you that you can trust that can be\n\n911\n00:40:31.130 --> 00:40:32.240\nwith you through all\n\n912\n00:40:32.240 --> 00:40:36.010\nperiods of time including when you don't need them as much you know if you're\n\n913\n00:40:36.010 --> 00:40:37.360\non a heater you don't\n\n914\n00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:41.240\nreally want to make a lot of change but that doesn't mean you don't want that\n\n915\n00:40:41.240 --> 00:40:42.160\nteam around you\n\n916\n00:40:42.160 --> 00:40:45.970\nseeing what you're doing and maybe just actually saying you know keep going you\n\n917\n00:40:45.970 --> 00:40:46.800\n're on a heater\n\n918\n00:40:46.800 --> 00:40:53.280\nyou mentioned long-term urgent explain so I've had two philosophies in my own\n\n919\n00:40:53.280 --> 00:40:54.320\ncareer that I just kind\n\n920\n00:40:54.320 --> 00:41:00.250\nof um I actually heard from a a Goldman exec when I was a baby at the firm he\n\n921\n00:41:00.250 --> 00:41:02.080\nhad a list of things\n\n922\n00:41:02.080 --> 00:41:04.960\nthat they believed in and two of them really resonated with me one is long-term\n\n923\n00:41:04.960 --> 00:41:05.440\nurgency\n\n924\n00:41:05.440 --> 00:41:11.150\nand the second is you run to trouble um and I'll give you first the example of\n\n925\n00:41:11.150 --> 00:41:11.520\nyou know you run\n\n926\n00:41:11.520 --> 00:41:16.440\nto trouble I had a a colleague who she was a remark she was remarkable what she\n\n927\n00:41:16.440 --> 00:41:17.840\ndid and\n\n928\n00:41:17.840 --> 00:41:25.760\nwhen the CFO of her client got fired she would go visit that CFO every week at\n\n929\n00:41:25.760 --> 00:41:26.880\nhis house for the\n\n930\n00:41:26.880 --> 00:41:32.960\nnext nine months and when the CFO got rehired into another situation everyone\n\n931\n00:41:32.960 --> 00:41:33.760\non you know under the\n\n932\n00:41:33.760 --> 00:41:38.680\nSun called and said hey I'd like to meet with you he picked up the phone and\n\n933\n00:41:38.680 --> 00:41:40.480\ncalled her and he did\n\n934\n00:41:40.480 --> 00:41:45.400\nthat because she had been there with him every step along the way including\n\n935\n00:41:45.400 --> 00:41:46.400\nwhen no one else wanted\n\n936\n00:41:46.400 --> 00:41:49.840\nto talk to him because he never positioned that to me is running into trouble\n\n937\n00:41:49.840 --> 00:41:50.560\nthe long-term\n\n938\n00:41:50.560 --> 00:41:55.970\nurgent is I treat every meeting with the utmost importance never with an\n\n939\n00:41:55.970 --> 00:41:57.200\nexpectation that I'm\n\n940\n00:41:57.200 --> 00:42:01.000\ngoing to do anything on the back end I remember I had one client who really was\n\n941\n00:42:01.000 --> 00:42:02.400\nimportant to me\n\n942\n00:42:02.400 --> 00:42:07.660\nand I met him when I was probably a mid-tenured partner and I said look what I\n\n943\n00:42:07.660 --> 00:42:08.880\nwant to do is I\n\n944\n00:42:08.880 --> 00:42:13.200\nwant to go I'll give you two stories from the two different individuals there I\n\n945\n00:42:13.200 --> 00:42:13.760\nsaid I want\n\n946\n00:42:13.760 --> 00:42:17.590\nto meet with you every month I'm just going to set up an hour every month and\n\n947\n00:42:17.590 --> 00:42:18.480\nevery month you're\n\n948\n00:42:18.480 --> 00:42:21.360\ngoing to give me an assignment of things that you want me to be thinking about\n\n949\n00:42:21.360 --> 00:42:22.160\non your behalf and\n\n950\n00:42:22.160 --> 00:42:25.950\nI'm going to come back and I'm going to share some perspective and when the\n\n951\n00:42:25.950 --> 00:42:26.960\ntime is right you'll\n\n952\n00:42:26.960 --> 00:42:31.880\ndecide if and when you want to work on any of these things and honestly I bet\n\n953\n00:42:31.880 --> 00:42:33.280\nyou we didn't do\n\n954\n00:42:33.280 --> 00:42:38.490\nany work with him for the first 18 months of that so he'd call it 18 meetings\n\n955\n00:42:38.490 --> 00:42:41.760\nand you know we probably\n\n956\n00:42:41.760 --> 00:42:45.090\ndidn't do a ton of work until there was a moment it was probably seven or eight\n\n957\n00:42:45.090 --> 00:42:46.160\nyears later where he\n\n958\n00:42:46.160 --> 00:42:49.440\nreally was the moment was right for him to do something that was big and\n\n959\n00:42:49.440 --> 00:42:51.360\ntransformative but it\n\n960\n00:42:51.360 --> 00:42:57.290\ntook years years to get there or I had another client where he got thrust into\n\n961\n00:42:57.290 --> 00:42:58.400\na position because\n\n962\n00:42:58.400 --> 00:43:02.920\nhis boss got fired overnight and he didn't really want the job he didn't feel\n\n963\n00:43:02.920 --> 00:43:03.840\nlike he was super\n\n964\n00:43:03.840 --> 00:43:07.200\nwell prepared for the job and I said don't look I'm just going to I'm going to\n\n965\n00:43:07.200 --> 00:43:08.000\ntake the office\n\n966\n00:43:08.000 --> 00:43:11.560\nright outside of yours and I'm going to be there every day and there were days\n\n967\n00:43:11.560 --> 00:43:12.240\nwhere he would have\n\n968\n00:43:12.240 --> 00:43:15.410\nto fly across the country I'd get on the plane with him and I'd fly with him\n\n969\n00:43:15.410 --> 00:43:16.400\nand we'd talk and do\n\n970\n00:43:16.400 --> 00:43:20.700\nwhat we had to do and then I'd get on a red eye back you know you know coach\n\n971\n00:43:20.700 --> 00:43:21.520\nthe net that same night\n\n972\n00:43:21.520 --> 00:43:24.850\nI'd literally go from one side of the airport to the other and that's what I\n\n973\n00:43:24.850 --> 00:43:25.760\nmean by long-term\n\n974\n00:43:25.760 --> 00:43:29.120\nurgent I was never in it for what that you know what was going to come our way\n\n975\n00:43:29.120 --> 00:43:31.040\nI was always treating\n\n976\n00:43:31.040 --> 00:43:34.410\nevery moment with the L level of urgency as it was the most important moment\n\n977\n00:43:34.410 --> 00:43:35.440\nbut I recognize it would\n\n978\n00:43:35.440 --> 00:43:38.910\ntake time until the situation would be right for us to really have the impact\n\n979\n00:43:38.910 --> 00:43:39.920\nthat I aspired for us\n\n980\n00:43:39.920 --> 00:43:42.960\nto have that's what I meant those are the two things that have been really\n\n981\n00:43:42.960 --> 00:43:43.680\nimportant to me\n\n982\n00:43:43.680 --> 00:43:48.600\nnow you you also say that you believe that Mackenzie's talent is your your\n\n983\n00:43:48.600 --> 00:43:49.600\nbiggest competitive\n\n984\n00:43:49.600 --> 00:43:57.760\nadvantage what what can you teach us about how to have an eye for a great\n\n985\n00:43:57.760 --> 00:43:59.600\ntalent I mean you know\n\n986\n00:43:59.600 --> 00:44:05.260\nwhat do you what do you really what you see people at clients you see people\n\n987\n00:44:05.260 --> 00:44:06.080\nwithin the firm\n\n988\n00:44:06.880 --> 00:44:11.800\nwhat have you picked up on that front our talent model is somewhat unique right\n\n989\n00:44:11.800 --> 00:44:12.080\nmeaning\n\n990\n00:44:12.080 --> 00:44:19.280\nmost of our talent is hired at the entry level so we hire about 50% of our\n\n991\n00:44:19.280 --> 00:44:20.160\npeople right out of\n\n992\n00:44:20.160 --> 00:44:24.470\nundergraduate we hire the other 50% out of some level of graduate school or\n\n993\n00:44:24.470 --> 00:44:25.120\nthat's probably not\n\n994\n00:44:25.120 --> 00:44:30.040\nright it's probably 98% so call it 49 and 49 and there's 2% that will come in\n\n995\n00:44:30.040 --> 00:44:30.240\nlater\n\n996\n00:44:31.200 --> 00:44:37.600\nand so at some level the eye for talent is more about intrinsic at that stage\n\n997\n00:44:37.600 --> 00:44:38.880\nthan it is about\n\n998\n00:44:38.880 --> 00:44:44.320\nany particular skills and so I've always thought about this kind of in three\n\n999\n00:44:44.320 --> 00:44:45.120\nbuckets\n\n1000\n00:44:45.120 --> 00:44:49.280\nthat you're looking for one is you know we are famous for our case interviews\n\n1001\n00:44:49.280 --> 00:44:54.180\nso we are really testing how you do on a conceptual level from a problem\n\n1002\n00:44:54.180 --> 00:44:54.720\nsolving how you do from\n\n1003\n00:44:54.720 --> 00:44:58.280\nanalytical level how you do from a quantitative level and it is really a test\n\n1004\n00:44:58.280 --> 00:44:59.120\nit is really a way\n\n1005\n00:44:59.120 --> 00:45:04.080\nto examine how you do walking through an example that you might encounter when\n\n1006\n00:45:04.080 --> 00:45:05.040\nyou show up\n\n1007\n00:45:05.040 --> 00:45:09.450\nfrom a kind of problem solving intrinsic point of view and a lot of that is how\n\n1008\n00:45:09.450 --> 00:45:10.080\ndo you structure\n\n1009\n00:45:10.080 --> 00:45:14.180\nand how would you how would you go figure out and and that by the way I often\n\n1010\n00:45:14.180 --> 00:45:14.880\nget frustrated\n\n1011\n00:45:14.880 --> 00:45:17.430\ntoday when all these kids come in and they're super well prepped and they've\n\n1012\n00:45:17.430 --> 00:45:18.320\ngot all the frameworks\n\n1013\n00:45:18.320 --> 00:45:22.400\nI actually want to see how they think not like the way chat GPT would tell them\n\n1014\n00:45:22.400 --> 00:45:22.960\nto answer the\n\n1015\n00:45:22.960 --> 00:45:26.240\nquestion but you can figure out people that are really think or come up with\n\n1016\n00:45:26.240 --> 00:45:27.120\ninnovative ways to\n\n1017\n00:45:27.120 --> 00:45:30.300\nlook at it that when you're on the other side of the interview doing the\n\n1018\n00:45:30.300 --> 00:45:31.680\ninterview you're like\n\n1019\n00:45:31.680 --> 00:45:34.960\ngosh I learned something and that the way they thought about it right so I look\n\n1020\n00:45:34.960 --> 00:45:35.440\nfor that\n\n1021\n00:45:35.440 --> 00:45:40.660\nI look for we we have these things where you're looking for life experiences\n\n1022\n00:45:40.660 --> 00:45:42.000\nand how do they respond\n\n1023\n00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:46.060\nin those moments so we often say well give us a moment where you failed or give\n\n1024\n00:45:46.060 --> 00:45:46.560\nus a moment\n\n1025\n00:45:46.560 --> 00:45:50.130\nwhere you were leading and we only ask questions like well what were you\n\n1026\n00:45:50.130 --> 00:45:51.600\nthinking what did you do\n\n1027\n00:45:51.600 --> 00:45:56.520\nor what did you say so you can't tell me the story right other than kind of\n\n1028\n00:45:56.520 --> 00:45:57.520\nthrough those and\n\n1029\n00:45:57.520 --> 00:46:00.520\nyou're constantly asking them well what did you say to the person in that\n\n1030\n00:46:00.520 --> 00:46:00.880\nmoment\n\n1031\n00:46:00.880 --> 00:46:06.160\nright well why did you say that like what were you thinking about or you know\n\n1032\n00:46:06.160 --> 00:46:06.720\nbecause you're trying\n\n1033\n00:46:06.720 --> 00:46:09.800\nto understand how they influence and how they kind of navigate tricky\n\n1034\n00:46:09.800 --> 00:46:11.680\nsituations and and someone\n\n1035\n00:46:11.680 --> 00:46:15.030\nthat's kind of testing the maturity and are they kind of more mature because we\n\n1036\n00:46:15.030 --> 00:46:15.920\n're going to throw a\n\n1037\n00:46:15.920 --> 00:46:19.620\nlot of these young folks into situations where they are with much more senior\n\n1038\n00:46:19.620 --> 00:46:20.560\nexperience more\n\n1039\n00:46:20.560 --> 00:46:25.500\nseasoned leaders and so how will they react in those moments and the third I\n\n1040\n00:46:25.500 --> 00:46:26.320\njust look for is\n\n1041\n00:46:26.320 --> 00:46:30.010\nkind of what are their leadership like in the organization that even part of\n\n1042\n00:46:30.010 --> 00:46:30.800\nwhat difference did\n\n1043\n00:46:30.800 --> 00:46:36.000\nthey make as leaders right so I often you know I have kids that are in college\n\n1044\n00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:36.240\nand so they're\n\n1045\n00:46:36.240 --> 00:46:38.240\nall coming to me with questions and their friends are coming to me with\n\n1046\n00:46:38.240 --> 00:46:39.280\nquestions and they're like\n\n1047\n00:46:39.280 --> 00:46:42.970\nwell there'd be as part of such and such a club matter I'm like it doesn't\n\n1048\n00:46:42.970 --> 00:46:44.320\nbecause I don't care\n\n1049\n00:46:44.320 --> 00:46:47.600\nwhat things you were affiliated with I care about what difference you made when\n\n1050\n00:46:47.600 --> 00:46:48.640\nyou were there\n\n1051\n00:46:48.640 --> 00:46:52.200\nright and so I want to hear about the and so between those three things you can\n\n1052\n00:46:52.200 --> 00:46:52.720\nget a real\n\n1053\n00:46:52.720 --> 00:46:56.890\nsense of the person and the potential and then we shape a lot of it right we\n\n1054\n00:46:56.890 --> 00:46:58.000\nshape a lot of it\n\n1055\n00:46:58.000 --> 00:47:01.840\nfrom that point which is why I say it's a somewhat unique model right if you're\n\n1056\n00:47:01.840 --> 00:47:02.960\ntrying to hire like\n\n1057\n00:47:02.960 --> 00:47:05.670\nI have to say I still struggle with if I'm trying to if we're trying to hire\n\n1058\n00:47:05.670 --> 00:47:06.720\nsomeone at a very senior\n\n1059\n00:47:06.720 --> 00:47:10.660\nlevel like I don't know that I have yet figured out what are the questions\n\n1060\n00:47:10.660 --> 00:47:12.240\nasked to really understand\n\n1061\n00:47:12.240 --> 00:47:15.520\nor they grade it what they did you can ask references but those are always\n\n1062\n00:47:15.520 --> 00:47:17.120\nbiased the beauty of what\n\n1063\n00:47:17.120 --> 00:47:21.040\nwe do is we really kind of take this raw talent these diamonds in the rough and\n\n1064\n00:47:21.040 --> 00:47:22.320\nwe get them to be\n\n1065\n00:47:22.320 --> 00:47:27.210\nthis incredible gem by the time they're done yeah I know when I've interviewed\n\n1066\n00:47:27.210 --> 00:47:29.040\nyoung people and\n\n1067\n00:47:29.040 --> 00:47:34.970\nyou know I just get excited but it's like you meet these people you go god I\n\n1068\n00:47:34.970 --> 00:47:35.840\ncan't let this guy\n\n1069\n00:47:35.840 --> 00:47:39.530\nout of my office like this woman I we've got to hire her you know but they had\n\n1070\n00:47:39.530 --> 00:47:40.320\na way of just\n\n1071\n00:47:40.320 --> 00:47:43.600\nexciting the hell out of you yeah you do this while you always every meeting\n\n1072\n00:47:43.600 --> 00:47:44.400\nanyone that ever meets\n\n1073\n00:47:44.400 --> 00:47:47.980\nyou walks away feeling good and more energized than they did beforehand and I\n\n1074\n00:47:47.980 --> 00:47:48.720\nthink that's a big\n\n1075\n00:47:48.720 --> 00:47:52.660\npart of you know you have to be as someone say exothermic you have to kind of\n\n1076\n00:47:52.660 --> 00:47:53.200\ndeliver\n\n1077\n00:47:53.200 --> 00:47:57.440\nthis energy that is infectious to people well I don't know if I do that but I\n\n1078\n00:47:57.440 --> 00:47:58.000\n'll tell you what\n\n1079\n00:47:58.000 --> 00:48:01.280\nwhen I would meet the people that had it I mean I couldn't wait to hire them\n\n1080\n00:48:01.280 --> 00:48:02.320\nthere's no question\n\n1081\n00:48:02.320 --> 00:48:08.550\nabout that you know and you know you you Eric you you you really get prepared\n\n1082\n00:48:08.550 --> 00:48:09.840\nyou're known for\n\n1083\n00:48:09.840 --> 00:48:12.930\npreparation so like if you're gonna if you're gonna sit down and have a big\n\n1084\n00:48:12.930 --> 00:48:13.760\nmeeting with a\n\n1085\n00:48:13.760 --> 00:48:20.030\na CEO or a potential client how do you think through that you know and again it\n\n1086\n00:48:20.030 --> 00:48:20.480\nall depends\n\n1087\n00:48:20.480 --> 00:48:23.760\non the meeting I find and you can tell me this is true or not true that if you\n\n1088\n00:48:23.760 --> 00:48:24.240\n're going to meet\n\n1089\n00:48:24.240 --> 00:48:29.460\nwith a CEO the first thing I always do is I read the cover of last years or the\n\n1090\n00:48:29.460 --> 00:48:30.560\ninside you know what\n\n1091\n00:48:30.560 --> 00:48:34.870\nthey wrote to the shareholders because I typically find most CEOs spend a lot\n\n1092\n00:48:34.870 --> 00:48:36.000\nof time thinking about\n\n1093\n00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:39.320\nwhat messages they want to and they're very proud of what they've written in\n\n1094\n00:48:39.320 --> 00:48:40.160\nthere and so I first\n\n1095\n00:48:40.160 --> 00:48:45.080\njust try to understand that with AI there's some incredible things like\n\n1096\n00:48:45.080 --> 00:48:46.160\nnotebook LM where you can\n\n1097\n00:48:46.160 --> 00:48:49.010\ngo find every speech they've given the last three months and every interview\n\n1098\n00:48:49.010 --> 00:48:49.920\nthey've done and what\n\n1099\n00:48:49.920 --> 00:48:53.860\nthey've said on analyst meetings and you can create a short podcast you can say\n\n1100\n00:48:53.860 --> 00:48:54.720\nI want a five-minute\n\n1101\n00:48:54.720 --> 00:48:58.990\npodcast I want a 10 minute that really can synthesize kind of what may be on\n\n1102\n00:48:58.990 --> 00:49:00.640\ntheir mind I typically will\n\n1103\n00:49:00.640 --> 00:49:03.740\nspend real time saying what are the three four five six things that I really\n\n1104\n00:49:03.740 --> 00:49:04.800\nwant to make sure I get\n\n1105\n00:49:04.800 --> 00:49:08.540\nacross but I I would tell you on an average meeting I might get one or two of\n\n1106\n00:49:08.540 --> 00:49:09.760\nthose and I always go\n\n1107\n00:49:09.760 --> 00:49:13.260\nin without paper which I am sure there's some people I go see they're like why\n\n1108\n00:49:13.260 --> 00:49:14.080\nis he always coming\n\n1109\n00:49:14.080 --> 00:49:17.980\nto that paper it's not that I didn't prepare the paper it's not I just I can't\n\n1110\n00:49:17.980 --> 00:49:19.200\nhave the conversation\n\n1111\n00:49:19.200 --> 00:49:22.920\nwith you if I'm staring or taking you through a document and I can bring\n\n1112\n00:49:22.920 --> 00:49:24.000\nsomeone else to walk\n\n1113\n00:49:24.000 --> 00:49:26.880\nthrough the document if they come to the point in time where that's the right\n\n1114\n00:49:26.880 --> 00:49:27.600\nthing to do but I\n\n1115\n00:49:27.600 --> 00:49:29.910\nreally want to hear what's on your mind I want to hear what's and so I learned\n\n1116\n00:49:29.910 --> 00:49:30.560\nto ask a lot of\n\n1117\n00:49:30.560 --> 00:49:34.280\nquestions but I have done a fair bit of prep right so I always listen to the\n\n1118\n00:49:34.280 --> 00:49:35.600\nlast earnings call I\n\n1119\n00:49:35.600 --> 00:49:38.400\nalways want to know what's going on I always want to know what the questions\n\n1120\n00:49:38.400 --> 00:49:39.120\nwere I want to know who\n\n1121\n00:49:39.120 --> 00:49:42.080\nwe answered the questions why they answered and the way they did I want to see\n\n1122\n00:49:42.080 --> 00:49:43.200\nwhat the stock reacted\n\n1123\n00:49:43.200 --> 00:49:46.920\nto I want to you know I'm constantly trying to understand one of the things I\n\n1124\n00:49:46.920 --> 00:49:47.760\ndo lots of times I\n\n1125\n00:49:47.760 --> 00:49:50.870\ngo talk to customers right because it's always good to come in with a\n\n1126\n00:49:50.870 --> 00:49:52.320\nperspective of what the kind\n\n1127\n00:49:52.320 --> 00:49:56.010\nI don't deal with a lot of consumer businesses personally I deal with a lot\n\n1128\n00:49:56.010 --> 00:49:57.440\nmore enterprise-related\n\n1129\n00:49:57.440 --> 00:50:01.130\nsales and so what's the customer saying what's the reputation what are those\n\n1130\n00:50:01.130 --> 00:50:02.880\nCEOs not really hearing\n\n1131\n00:50:02.880 --> 00:50:06.760\nfrom their own teams of what's maybe going on and inevitably because I've spent\n\n1132\n00:50:06.760 --> 00:50:07.280\nso much time\n\n1133\n00:50:07.280 --> 00:50:10.970\nin tech I I know we're serving a lot of these other institutions so I\n\n1134\n00:50:10.970 --> 00:50:12.160\nunderstand what they're\n\n1135\n00:50:12.160 --> 00:50:15.440\nthinking and how they're thinking about in the perception and I find that super\n\n1136\n00:50:15.440 --> 00:50:16.080\nI find that\n\n1137\n00:50:16.080 --> 00:50:19.460\nsuper compelling but you know what do I know because the only compelling part\n\n1138\n00:50:19.460 --> 00:50:20.240\nis they haven't\n\n1139\n00:50:20.240 --> 00:50:25.550\nthrown me out too often you know there's been so much fun Eric and I want to\n\n1140\n00:50:25.550 --> 00:50:26.400\nhave some more and\n\n1141\n00:50:26.400 --> 00:50:30.320\nI have this lightning round of questions sir so are you ready for this yeah\n\n1142\n00:50:30.320 --> 00:50:30.960\nthree words that\n\n1143\n00:50:30.960 --> 00:50:36.180\nbest describe you optimistic energetic and restless if you could be one person\n\n1144\n00:50:36.180 --> 00:50:36.720\nfor a day\n\n1145\n00:50:36.720 --> 00:50:42.480\nbeside yourself who would it be it's gaudy sheffler your biggest pet peeve\n\n1146\n00:50:42.480 --> 00:50:44.480\nhierarchy who would play\n\n1147\n00:50:44.480 --> 00:50:50.320\nyou in a movie tom cruise I thought you'd have to tell me it's Jerry Seinfeld\n\n1148\n00:50:50.320 --> 00:50:51.680\nthat's why you know\n\n1149\n00:50:54.480 --> 00:51:01.680\nyour favorite place to ski Kirkwood Mountain in Tahoe lowest round of golf 67\n\n1150\n00:51:01.680 --> 00:51:02.080\nwhen you're\n\n1151\n00:51:02.080 --> 00:51:07.300\nteeing it up with your your boys in the weekend who wins my my 18 year old has\n\n1152\n00:51:07.300 --> 00:51:08.480\nbeaten me once and\n\n1153\n00:51:08.480 --> 00:51:13.970\nhe won't let me live it down and he made birdie on 18 to do it he shot 75 that\n\n1154\n00:51:13.970 --> 00:51:14.960\nday we're still at a\n\n1155\n00:51:14.960 --> 00:51:18.070\npoint where I am beating my kids but I don't I don't think that's for much\n\n1156\n00:51:18.070 --> 00:51:19.040\nlonger the fastest\n\n1157\n00:51:19.040 --> 00:51:24.010\nyou've ever driven in your electric car 120 miles an hour what's something you\n\n1158\n00:51:24.010 --> 00:51:25.360\n've been curious about\n\n1159\n00:51:25.360 --> 00:51:30.600\nlately that has nothing to do with work the ideas behind longevity have you\n\n1160\n00:51:30.600 --> 00:51:32.320\nread that book out live\n\n1161\n00:51:32.320 --> 00:51:37.200\nI did I read her over the break yeah I read it too so I'm gonna live for a long\n\n1162\n00:51:37.200 --> 00:51:38.240\ntime I have no doubt\n\n1163\n00:51:38.240 --> 00:51:44.310\nabout it what's the one thing you do just for you I go to the gym every day if\n\n1164\n00:51:44.310 --> 00:51:45.280\nI turned on the\n\n1165\n00:51:45.280 --> 00:51:48.840\nradio in your car what would I hear right now you'd find Spotify is the thing\n\n1166\n00:51:48.840 --> 00:51:50.000\nthat I am using most\n\n1167\n00:51:50.000 --> 00:51:53.580\noften and I've been listening to a couple of different artists lately I've been\n\n1168\n00:51:53.580 --> 00:51:54.320\nlistening to\n\n1169\n00:51:54.320 --> 00:51:57.760\nColdplay I've been listening to the Google dolls I've been listening to train\n\n1170\n00:51:57.760 --> 00:51:59.360\nwhat's something about\n\n1171\n00:51:59.360 --> 00:52:06.110\nyou a few people would know I think most people would would think about me more\n\n1172\n00:52:06.110 --> 00:52:07.120\nabout my head and\n\n1173\n00:52:07.120 --> 00:52:11.290\nwhat's going on in terms of my brain I actually think what really those that\n\n1174\n00:52:11.290 --> 00:52:12.400\nknow me well know\n\n1175\n00:52:12.400 --> 00:52:16.920\nabout my heart what's one of your daily rituals besides your workout something\n\n1176\n00:52:16.920 --> 00:52:17.680\nthat you'd never\n\n1177\n00:52:17.680 --> 00:52:22.600\nmiss my cup of coffee all right there we go we're out of the lightning round\n\n1178\n00:52:22.600 --> 00:52:23.280\ngood job all right\n\n1179\n00:52:23.280 --> 00:52:28.500\njust a few more questions here we'll wrap this up Eric you have three kids how\n\n1180\n00:52:28.500 --> 00:52:30.080\nhave you brought\n\n1181\n00:52:30.080 --> 00:52:36.150\nthe the way that you lead at McKinsey and and take it at home it was super\n\n1182\n00:52:36.150 --> 00:52:38.080\ninteresting I just I just\n\n1183\n00:52:38.080 --> 00:52:44.010\nhad about 35 of my partners down at my place in South Carolina and I thought\n\n1184\n00:52:44.010 --> 00:52:44.480\nthis was actually\n\n1185\n00:52:44.480 --> 00:52:48.360\nI apologize this was 35 of my engagement managers and and associate partners\n\n1186\n00:52:48.360 --> 00:52:49.360\nthey're just before\n\n1187\n00:52:49.360 --> 00:52:54.190\nfolks become partner and someone asked me the question about like you know as I\n\n1188\n00:52:54.190 --> 00:52:54.640\nlook back on\n\n1189\n00:52:54.640 --> 00:53:02.160\nas my as my oldest turns 20 on Sunday do I do I feel like I was a good dad or\n\n1190\n00:53:02.160 --> 00:53:02.960\ndid I miss out on\n\n1191\n00:53:02.960 --> 00:53:06.910\nall the things and did I really kind of orient more towards my career and and\n\n1192\n00:53:06.910 --> 00:53:07.680\nthe firm which can\n\n1193\n00:53:07.680 --> 00:53:13.810\ntake a lot of my time and I and I and I had been feeling better as my kids had\n\n1194\n00:53:13.810 --> 00:53:14.960\ngotten older that\n\n1195\n00:53:14.960 --> 00:53:18.720\nI had done a lot to influence them and that they actually rely on me more and\n\n1196\n00:53:18.720 --> 00:53:19.440\nmore especially as\n\n1197\n00:53:19.440 --> 00:53:22.840\nthey enter this phase of their career but when this young pregnant woman asked\n\n1198\n00:53:22.840 --> 00:53:23.840\nme this question I\n\n1199\n00:53:23.840 --> 00:53:27.280\nsaid you know I don't want to answer the question but instead I just FaceTime\n\n1200\n00:53:27.280 --> 00:53:28.240\nmy daughter there's about\n\n1201\n00:53:28.240 --> 00:53:31.310\n40 people in this room and one of them just asked me a question I think you're\n\n1202\n00:53:31.310 --> 00:53:32.160\nbetter prepared to\n\n1203\n00:53:32.160 --> 00:53:37.840\nanswer and she goes what's the question I said well was I a good dad and she\n\n1204\n00:53:37.840 --> 00:53:38.720\ncalls for a moment and\n\n1205\n00:53:38.720 --> 00:53:46.110\nshe goes absolutely and she said well I said well why and she says I always\n\n1206\n00:53:46.110 --> 00:53:47.520\nknew whenever I needed\n\n1207\n00:53:47.520 --> 00:53:52.360\nyou you would be there no matter what right and so that was very meaningful to\n\n1208\n00:53:52.360 --> 00:53:53.360\nme as to you know\n\n1209\n00:53:53.360 --> 00:53:56.920\nthe presence and the presence of and I do think about that from a leadership\n\n1210\n00:53:56.920 --> 00:53:57.760\npoint of view like\n\n1211\n00:53:58.560 --> 00:54:04.000\nI think my colleagues would say no matter where in the world I am if they need\n\n1212\n00:54:04.000 --> 00:54:04.880\nto chat with me that\n\n1213\n00:54:04.880 --> 00:54:08.690\nday they will get me if they you know that my response time to call them back\n\n1214\n00:54:08.690 --> 00:54:09.600\nis very fast and\n\n1215\n00:54:09.600 --> 00:54:15.060\nit's I do believe that this is the the urgency point like you always have to be\n\n1216\n00:54:15.060 --> 00:54:15.600\nthere with\n\n1217\n00:54:15.600 --> 00:54:19.210\nfor Pope for people's moments of need they have to know that you will\n\n1218\n00:54:19.210 --> 00:54:20.160\nprioritize them\n\n1219\n00:54:20.160 --> 00:54:25.080\nand that's part of the trust and so I think that's been a big part of what I do\n\n1220\n00:54:25.080 --> 00:54:25.600\nat work and I think\n\n1221\n00:54:25.600 --> 00:54:30.480\nit's a big part of how I've been as a parent people talk about work-life\n\n1222\n00:54:30.480 --> 00:54:30.800\nbalance you just\n\n1223\n00:54:30.800 --> 00:54:35.770\ntalked about you know a few minutes ago red eyes and being away and all the\n\n1224\n00:54:35.770 --> 00:54:37.760\ntravel what's your\n\n1225\n00:54:37.760 --> 00:54:42.710\ntake on on on work-life balance I mean how do you think about it I honestly don\n\n1226\n00:54:42.710 --> 00:54:44.880\n't right I mean I\n\n1227\n00:54:44.880 --> 00:54:49.390\nI've always thought this a little bit of fictitious like I love what I do right\n\n1228\n00:54:49.390 --> 00:54:50.640\nand what I do I wouldn't\n\n1229\n00:54:50.640 --> 00:54:53.920\ndo what I do every day I wouldn't travel the way I do I'm with the exception of\n\n1230\n00:54:53.920 --> 00:54:54.720\nabout an 18-month\n\n1231\n00:54:54.720 --> 00:54:58.000\nperiod that I talked about as the end of my time as CFO I've been at the firm\n\n1232\n00:54:58.000 --> 00:55:00.000\n28 plus years I've run\n\n1233\n00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:04.920\nto work every day for all but that 18-month period that's an amazing that's an\n\n1234\n00:55:04.920 --> 00:55:05.680\namazing thing so\n\n1235\n00:55:05.680 --> 00:55:11.190\nlike I have not chosen to say I'm going to do work here and life here I rather\n\n1236\n00:55:11.190 --> 00:55:11.760\nmake them\n\n1237\n00:55:11.760 --> 00:55:16.680\nall integrate together so my kids are part of my work like you know we do these\n\n1238\n00:55:16.680 --> 00:55:17.120\nretreats I bring\n\n1239\n00:55:17.120 --> 00:55:22.070\nthe family like I they know a lot about the firm and a lot about what I do and\n\n1240\n00:55:22.070 --> 00:55:23.840\nit's part of who they\n\n1241\n00:55:23.840 --> 00:55:28.900\nare and then vice versa I bring like you know it's I've just never believed you\n\n1242\n00:55:28.900 --> 00:55:30.080\ncould ever separate\n\n1243\n00:55:30.080 --> 00:55:33.980\nthose two things if you're doing something that you care so much about and that\n\n1244\n00:55:33.980 --> 00:55:34.720\n's been true about\n\n1245\n00:55:34.720 --> 00:55:38.520\nmy passions too like I am a deeply passionate golfer but I involve that and\n\n1246\n00:55:38.520 --> 00:55:39.280\nwhat I do from a\n\n1247\n00:55:39.280 --> 00:55:42.460\nwork point of view or I happen to be a die-hard Yankee fan and I bring lots of\n\n1248\n00:55:42.460 --> 00:55:43.520\nclients to see my\n\n1249\n00:55:43.520 --> 00:55:50.280\nI found a way to make work and life very intertwined so that it never felt like\n\n1250\n00:55:50.280 --> 00:55:51.520\nI had to draw lines\n\n1251\n00:55:51.520 --> 00:55:56.800\nthat were this artificial balance point and it's why I don't think I've ever\n\n1252\n00:55:56.800 --> 00:55:57.040\nlike\n\n1253\n00:55:57.040 --> 00:56:03.170\nI've never gone to work like not the exception of that one small period where I\n\n1254\n00:56:03.170 --> 00:56:03.920\nwas not excited\n\n1255\n00:56:03.920 --> 00:56:09.840\nto go that day well tell me if this is true I I'm sure it is because but but I\n\n1256\n00:56:09.840 --> 00:56:10.720\nheard you've\n\n1257\n00:56:10.720 --> 00:56:16.230\nyou said you've got 10 years left before you retire at 60 years old you're such\n\n1258\n00:56:16.230 --> 00:56:17.440\na young guy\n\n1259\n00:56:17.440 --> 00:56:21.680\nwhy would you retire at 60 yeah I think my I think the last couple years it may\n\n1260\n00:56:21.680 --> 00:56:21.920\nbe\n\n1261\n00:56:21.920 --> 00:56:26.960\nJames so the the firm has this you know the firm our firm has this real\n\n1262\n00:56:26.960 --> 00:56:27.840\nincentive to\n\n1263\n00:56:27.840 --> 00:56:30.880\nleave by your 60th birthday and I think it's an important thing inside the firm\n\n1264\n00:56:30.880 --> 00:56:31.840\nto do that\n\n1265\n00:56:31.840 --> 00:56:35.120\nbecause it's how you pass the firm generationally right it's actually an\n\n1266\n00:56:35.120 --> 00:56:35.600\nimportant point\n\n1267\n00:56:35.600 --> 00:56:41.870\nit's a young person's firm and so I'm now 51 I've got you know up to nine years\n\n1268\n00:56:41.870 --> 00:56:42.480\nthat I can stay at\n\n1269\n00:56:42.480 --> 00:56:45.760\nthe firm as long as I'm being useful and helpful with the firm I used to think\n\n1270\n00:56:45.760 --> 00:56:46.720\nthat I would really\n\n1271\n00:56:46.720 --> 00:56:49.740\nkind of you know not want to be tethered to my phone and be able to play golf\n\n1272\n00:56:49.740 --> 00:56:50.240\nand not have to\n\n1273\n00:56:50.240 --> 00:56:54.170\nworry about the 150 emails that came through and and what I've realized over\n\n1274\n00:56:54.170 --> 00:56:55.120\nthe last probably two\n\n1275\n00:56:55.120 --> 00:56:59.030\nyears is I'm just not set up well to retire like it's just not who I am\n\n1276\n00:56:59.030 --> 00:57:00.240\npersonally and so\n\n1277\n00:57:00.240 --> 00:57:05.250\nI think now much more about working like really in it doing something\n\n1278\n00:57:05.250 --> 00:57:07.440\nmeaningful into my mid 60s\n\n1279\n00:57:07.440 --> 00:57:10.540\nand then after that doing something where I'm kind of giving back\n\n1280\n00:57:10.540 --> 00:57:12.000\nprofessionally in a different\n\n1281\n00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:16.160\nway but not maybe necessarily at the same speed for another 10 or so years and\n\n1282\n00:57:16.160 --> 00:57:16.640\nat that point\n\n1283\n00:57:16.640 --> 00:57:20.430\nthat's 20 you know that gets me 25 years from now who the hell knows how I'll\n\n1284\n00:57:20.430 --> 00:57:21.600\nfeel in 25 years from\n\n1285\n00:57:21.600 --> 00:57:28.480\nnow so you never retire Eric you you you you refire you refire I like that the\n\n1286\n00:57:28.480 --> 00:57:29.920\nretirement word is a\n\n1287\n00:57:29.920 --> 00:57:36.400\nis a bad bad word you know uh you know what do you see Eric is as your\n\n1288\n00:57:36.400 --> 00:57:37.840\nunfinished business\n\n1289\n00:57:37.840 --> 00:57:42.720\nboth for Mackenzie and you personally you know so I think the first thing is as\n\n1290\n00:57:42.720 --> 00:57:43.520\na parent it's always\n\n1291\n00:57:43.520 --> 00:57:48.440\nunfinished right I mean the reality is when when it's all said and done and\n\n1292\n00:57:48.440 --> 00:57:49.840\nthey they finally you\n\n1293\n00:57:49.840 --> 00:57:54.100\nknow put it in stone but I really want them to write is you know beloved\n\n1294\n00:57:54.100 --> 00:57:55.680\nhusband father and friend\n\n1295\n00:57:55.680 --> 00:57:59.680\nand so you have to make sure no matter what you are there with your family and\n\n1296\n00:57:59.680 --> 00:58:00.960\nwith your kids and\n\n1297\n00:58:00.960 --> 00:58:03.890\nI'm at this super interesting time is they're kind of thinking about where they\n\n1298\n00:58:03.890 --> 00:58:04.320\n're what they're\n\n1299\n00:58:04.320 --> 00:58:07.420\ngoing to start their careers at and kind of as they are in college they're in\n\n1300\n00:58:07.420 --> 00:58:08.640\nthis incredible moment\n\n1301\n00:58:08.640 --> 00:58:13.050\nand to make sure that I'm there and don't and that part never finishes if you\n\n1302\n00:58:13.050 --> 00:58:14.000\nknow as my father\n\n1303\n00:58:14.000 --> 00:58:17.050\ntaught me or my parents taught me little kids little problems big kids big\n\n1304\n00:58:17.050 --> 00:58:17.760\nproblems and so\n\n1305\n00:58:17.760 --> 00:58:20.640\nthose never go away and you're always kind of worried about it's one of the\n\n1306\n00:58:20.640 --> 00:58:21.200\nthings I think\n\n1307\n00:58:21.200 --> 00:58:25.420\nabout leadership a lot is you absorb the pain of your kids or of your teams but\n\n1308\n00:58:25.420 --> 00:58:26.960\nyou celebrate\n\n1309\n00:58:26.960 --> 00:58:30.400\nand live and bask in the glory of their successes and so that part is not done\n\n1310\n00:58:32.080 --> 00:58:36.640\nprofessionally it's funny I talked about this kind of being comfortable I'm\n\n1311\n00:58:36.640 --> 00:58:37.440\nmuch more centered now\n\n1312\n00:58:37.440 --> 00:58:40.720\nthan I ever was and so I don't have a lot more that I have to personally feel\n\n1313\n00:58:40.720 --> 00:58:42.240\nlike I have to prove\n\n1314\n00:58:42.240 --> 00:58:45.930\nI do a lot of what I do and I especially as I've been leading inside the firm\n\n1315\n00:58:45.930 --> 00:58:46.240\ntoday\n\n1316\n00:58:46.240 --> 00:58:50.010\nas I think a lot about this work stewardship I think I'll I know the firm\n\n1317\n00:58:50.010 --> 00:58:51.280\nMcKenzie turns 100\n\n1318\n00:58:51.280 --> 00:58:54.970\nthis year I don't think we I don't think any of us know the exact day but one\n\n1319\n00:58:54.970 --> 00:58:55.680\nof the things I was\n\n1320\n00:58:55.680 --> 00:58:59.850\nI've been really struck by is and if you think about the word stewardship as\n\n1321\n00:58:59.850 --> 00:59:01.680\nopposed to ownership\n\n1322\n00:59:02.080 --> 00:59:05.770\nI think of it as you kind of get a moment in time where you are the caretaker\n\n1323\n00:59:05.770 --> 00:59:06.720\nof the institution\n\n1324\n00:59:06.720 --> 00:59:12.130\nand so until like you stand on the shoulders of those that came before you and\n\n1325\n00:59:12.130 --> 00:59:12.800\nhanded you this\n\n1326\n00:59:12.800 --> 00:59:16.590\nincredible thing and then your job is to make it better and hand it to the next\n\n1327\n00:59:16.590 --> 00:59:17.360\ngeneration and\n\n1328\n00:59:17.360 --> 00:59:22.190\nthen you've kind of done your job and I haven't yet been you know been asked to\n\n1329\n00:59:22.190 --> 00:59:22.560\ngive it to the\n\n1330\n00:59:22.560 --> 00:59:27.450\nnext generation fully and so until I do my job is to continue to make the firm\n\n1331\n00:59:27.450 --> 00:59:28.480\nbetter and I think\n\n1332\n00:59:28.480 --> 00:59:32.980\npart of that is continuing to build the culture and you know that attracts what\n\n1333\n00:59:32.980 --> 00:59:33.600\nI think is the most\n\n1334\n00:59:33.600 --> 00:59:36.700\namazing talent gets them to want to stay and do the things we do which I think\n\n1335\n00:59:36.700 --> 00:59:37.520\nis a noble purpose\n\n1336\n00:59:37.520 --> 00:59:41.760\nand then it's probably to help position us for what I think is going to be this\n\n1337\n00:59:41.760 --> 00:59:42.480\ngreatest moment\n\n1338\n00:59:42.480 --> 00:59:46.700\nof transformational change that I've lived through which is this AI moment and\n\n1339\n00:59:46.700 --> 00:59:47.200\nso how do you get\n\n1340\n00:59:47.200 --> 00:59:52.120\nthe organization ready to do that in a partnership and then and so I think once\n\n1341\n00:59:52.120 --> 00:59:53.520\nthose things are done\n\n1342\n00:59:53.520 --> 00:59:57.610\nI think the firm will be happy to say goodbye to me. Last question what's one\n\n1343\n00:59:57.610 --> 00:59:58.720\npiece of advice\n\n1344\n00:59:58.720 --> 01:00:02.640\nyou'd give to anyone who wants to be a better leader? I think great leaders are\n\n1345\n01:00:02.640 --> 01:00:04.000\nmuch more about\n\n1346\n01:00:04.000 --> 01:00:08.310\nthe team they leave behind than about themselves and so I think if you are self\n\n1347\n01:00:08.310 --> 01:00:08.960\n-oriented and are\n\n1348\n01:00:08.960 --> 01:00:13.210\ndoing this for you or doing it for the wrong purpose great leaders think about\n\n1349\n01:00:13.210 --> 01:00:14.000\nhow they make\n\n1350\n01:00:14.000 --> 01:00:18.920\nevery one of the team members better and that's their job they chose that team\n\n1351\n01:00:18.920 --> 01:00:19.520\nbecause they believe\n\n1352\n01:00:19.520 --> 01:00:24.440\ncollectively that team can do something magical their job as the leader is to\n\n1353\n01:00:24.440 --> 01:00:24.960\nmake every\n\n1354\n01:00:24.960 --> 01:00:28.520\none of those people reach their full potential so that the collectively they\n\n1355\n01:00:28.520 --> 01:00:29.360\ncan achieve that\n\n1356\n01:00:29.360 --> 01:00:33.120\nimpossible if they do it because they think that team is leveraged for them\n\n1357\n01:00:33.120 --> 01:00:34.960\nthat is selfish and\n\n1358\n01:00:34.960 --> 01:00:37.850\nthey are a bad leader and I think that's a really important difference. You\n\n1359\n01:00:37.850 --> 01:00:40.720\nknow Eric this has been\n\n1360\n01:00:40.720 --> 01:00:45.640\nyou know a great conversation I want to thank you for taking the time you\n\n1361\n01:00:45.640 --> 01:00:47.680\ndefinitely are smart\n\n1362\n01:00:48.240 --> 01:00:53.650\nthere's no question about that and I've had the privilege of getting to know\n\n1363\n01:00:53.650 --> 01:00:54.960\nyou and I think\n\n1364\n01:00:54.960 --> 01:01:00.170\nwhat if there's anybody that doesn't realize that you don't you don't have a\n\n1365\n01:01:00.170 --> 01:01:01.920\nheart they might not\n\n1366\n01:01:01.920 --> 01:01:07.790\nhave one okay because I think you have that the unique combination of being you\n\n1367\n01:01:07.790 --> 01:01:09.200\nknow smart with\n\n1368\n01:01:09.200 --> 01:01:16.000\nheart and it's it's I'm sure that's why your clients love you and and people\n\n1369\n01:01:16.000 --> 01:01:16.560\nlove you since\n\n1370\n01:01:16.560 --> 01:01:23.200\nyou start being that assholes CFO. It is true. Sometimes courses are courses\n\n1371\n01:01:23.200 --> 01:01:23.600\nand I just had\n\n1372\n01:01:23.600 --> 01:01:27.640\nto play the role for the moment. Thank you I really appreciate you. It's\n\n1373\n01:01:27.640 --> 01:01:28.400\namazing thank you.\n\n1374\n01:01:28.400 --> 01:01:37.920\nDavid I feel a whole lot smarter after listening to that interview between you\n\n1375\n01:01:37.920 --> 01:01:38.320\nand Eric.\n\n1376\n01:01:38.320 --> 01:01:42.480\nWell that's the way I should be when you talk to a consultant they should make\n\n1377\n01:01:42.480 --> 01:01:43.120\nyou a whole lot\n\n1378\n01:01:43.120 --> 01:01:47.760\nsmarter and give you insights that you wouldn't come up with on their own so I\n\n1379\n01:01:47.760 --> 01:01:48.400\ndon't know that\n\n1380\n01:01:48.400 --> 01:01:53.320\nyou could pay Eric a finer compliment than that. I love this episode David and\n\n1381\n01:01:53.320 --> 01:01:53.760\nobviously it's\n\n1382\n01:01:53.760 --> 01:01:57.320\nvery AI forward and I think you know it's people say this all the time but for\n\n1383\n01:01:57.320 --> 01:01:58.160\nsome reason in this\n\n1384\n01:01:58.160 --> 01:02:01.870\nepisode it held a little more weight when Eric says that this is a once in a\n\n1385\n01:02:01.870 --> 01:02:03.200\ngeneration technology\n\n1386\n01:02:03.200 --> 01:02:07.130\ntransition and we all know that AI is a big deal and it's changing everything\n\n1387\n01:02:07.130 --> 01:02:08.400\nbut the way that he\n\n1388\n01:02:08.400 --> 01:02:12.650\napproaches it and teaches it and encourages other leaders to teach their people\n\n1389\n01:02:12.650 --> 01:02:13.680\nabout it is so\n\n1390\n01:02:13.680 --> 01:02:17.680\nsignificant and I love the way that he broke it down and just made it really\n\n1391\n01:02:17.680 --> 01:02:18.320\npractical for\n\n1392\n01:02:18.320 --> 01:02:22.450\neverybody and I'm excited David to get your take on some of those same concepts\n\n1393\n01:02:22.450 --> 01:02:23.200\nthat you and Eric\n\n1394\n01:02:23.200 --> 01:02:28.400\ntalked about in this debrief of your conversation. Well what I like to say\n\n1395\n01:02:28.400 --> 01:02:29.280\npointing out a couple\n\n1396\n01:02:29.280 --> 01:02:32.840\nof things number one is that obviously everybody knows AI can drive\n\n1397\n01:02:32.840 --> 01:02:34.800\nproductivity you know by reducing\n\n1398\n01:02:34.800 --> 01:02:40.580\ncosts and the typical employee count that you have in your organization you\n\n1399\n01:02:40.580 --> 01:02:41.280\nknow that's that's\n\n1400\n01:02:41.280 --> 01:02:45.340\nsomething that you know people readily acknowledge but what he brings up is the\n\n1401\n01:02:45.340 --> 01:02:47.120\nfact that as we get\n\n1402\n01:02:47.120 --> 01:02:52.160\nsmarter and smarter with AI we're going to drive huge revenue generation and\n\n1403\n01:02:52.160 --> 01:02:54.000\nsatisfy customers even\n\n1404\n01:02:54.000 --> 01:02:58.920\nmore and I think that's what really has him excited is the potential that we\n\n1405\n01:02:58.920 --> 01:03:00.480\nhave to use AI to really\n\n1406\n01:03:00.480 --> 01:03:06.610\ngrow businesses and you know drive their sales and profits much more\n\n1407\n01:03:06.610 --> 01:03:08.080\nsignificantly.\n\n1408\n01:03:08.080 --> 01:03:11.840\nThe other thing that I loved you were going to go ahead and you were going to\n\n1409\n01:03:11.840 --> 01:03:12.960\nsay something cool.\n\n1410\n01:03:12.960 --> 01:03:17.270\nI was just going to say you know everybody's manager boss is trying to figure\n\n1411\n01:03:17.270 --> 01:03:17.600\nout how to\n\n1412\n01:03:17.600 --> 01:03:20.770\nincorporate AI into their work stream but even if you're an individual\n\n1413\n01:03:20.770 --> 01:03:22.000\ncontributor I would go back\n\n1414\n01:03:22.000 --> 01:03:25.690\nand listen to those three things that Eric says around what he believes AI is\n\n1415\n01:03:25.690 --> 01:03:26.560\ngoing to be most\n\n1416\n01:03:26.560 --> 01:03:30.800\nimpactful around especially pay attention to the third one where he talks about\n\n1417\n01:03:30.800 --> 01:03:32.160\nhow it's going to\n\n1418\n01:03:32.160 --> 01:03:38.000\nallow for much more net new business for any company so even if you're an\n\n1419\n01:03:38.000 --> 01:03:39.040\nindividual contributor\n\n1420\n01:03:39.040 --> 01:03:43.960\nand not in charge of helping your entire team adopt AI in all these different\n\n1421\n01:03:43.960 --> 01:03:44.800\nways how can you\n\n1422\n01:03:44.800 --> 01:03:49.720\nthink through what AI will allow you to do in terms of generating net new\n\n1423\n01:03:49.720 --> 01:03:51.120\nbusiness and coming\n\n1424\n01:03:51.120 --> 01:03:55.180\nup with these new revenue streams because when you take that to your team and\n\n1425\n01:03:55.180 --> 01:03:55.920\nto your boss\n\n1426\n01:03:55.920 --> 01:04:00.480\nit will not only show them that you are an active and avid learner and adopting\n\n1427\n01:04:00.480 --> 01:04:01.280\nAI but it will show\n\n1428\n01:04:01.280 --> 01:04:06.200\nthat you have a more enterprise view of your organization. Yeah a great point\n\n1429\n01:04:06.200 --> 01:04:06.880\nand speaking of\n\n1430\n01:04:06.880 --> 01:04:10.460\nthe enterprise and how the enterprise should build into the culture I thought\n\n1431\n01:04:10.460 --> 01:04:11.760\nhe brought up a\n\n1432\n01:04:11.760 --> 01:04:17.280\nphenomenal point which is what leaders are going to need to do now and every\n\n1433\n01:04:17.280 --> 01:04:18.320\nleader should be doing\n\n1434\n01:04:18.320 --> 01:04:25.760\nfor themselves is learn how to ask AI really great questions because the better\n\n1435\n01:04:25.760 --> 01:04:26.800\nquestions you ask\n\n1436\n01:04:26.800 --> 01:04:32.640\nthe better the input you're going to get from chat GBT or whoever you go to so\n\n1437\n01:04:32.640 --> 01:04:34.480\nto me that is a\n\n1438\n01:04:34.480 --> 01:04:38.320\ngreat insight and when I think about it the best leaders always have known how\n\n1439\n01:04:38.320 --> 01:04:39.440\nto ask great questions\n\n1440\n01:04:39.440 --> 01:04:43.130\nyou know the best leaders ask questions of their people they ask questions from\n\n1441\n01:04:43.130 --> 01:04:44.640\ncustomers you know\n\n1442\n01:04:44.640 --> 01:04:49.860\nthey ask questions from investors or you name it they're very good at driving\n\n1443\n01:04:49.860 --> 01:04:50.960\nfor insights through\n\n1444\n01:04:50.960 --> 01:04:56.810\nbeing curious and I think teaching people and teaching yourself how to ask\n\n1445\n01:04:56.810 --> 01:04:58.080\nreally insightful\n\n1446\n01:04:58.080 --> 01:05:02.970\nquestions is a great leadership skill everybody should everybody should really\n\n1447\n01:05:02.970 --> 01:05:03.680\nbuild in and\n\n1448\n01:05:03.680 --> 01:05:07.390\nyou know people always talk about the importance of listening that is\n\n1449\n01:05:07.390 --> 01:05:09.280\nabsolutely true but you know\n\n1450\n01:05:09.280 --> 01:05:13.100\nit's much better to listen after after you ask some really good questions\n\n1451\n01:05:13.100 --> 01:05:13.920\nbecause that's when\n\n1452\n01:05:13.920 --> 01:05:18.820\nyou really got to get the best insights he talks about being a good prompt\n\n1453\n01:05:18.820 --> 01:05:19.520\nengineer and that was a\n\n1454\n01:05:19.520 --> 01:05:24.440\nvery good piece of feedback that I've taken from this conversation and even you\n\n1455\n01:05:24.440 --> 01:05:25.200\nknow since I've\n\n1456\n01:05:25.200 --> 01:05:29.070\nlistened to it and since I've been using Jim and I in chat GBT I try to stop\n\n1457\n01:05:29.070 --> 01:05:30.320\nmyself before I hit\n\n1458\n01:05:30.320 --> 01:05:35.360\nenter on my chat and I say okay is this prompt going to elicit the informed\n\n1459\n01:05:35.360 --> 01:05:37.680\npiece of data that I'm\n\n1460\n01:05:37.680 --> 01:05:42.920\nreally looking for yeah and and the better we all get it it it it it really you\n\n1461\n01:05:42.920 --> 01:05:44.000\nknow clearly\n\n1462\n01:05:44.000 --> 01:05:49.660\narticulating those prompts I think the more power we're going to get out of AI.\n\n1463\n01:05:49.660 --> 01:05:50.640\nSwitching gears\n\n1464\n01:05:50.640 --> 01:05:54.600\njust a little bit David I want to talk about failure and in the episode Eric\n\n1465\n01:05:54.600 --> 01:05:55.360\nshares this\n\n1466\n01:05:55.360 --> 01:06:00.900\nincredibly vulnerable story about failing as a CFO he lost confidence of his\n\n1467\n01:06:00.900 --> 01:06:01.680\npartners\n\n1468\n01:06:01.680 --> 01:06:05.040\nbecame unwelcome in meetings he talks about how awkward it was when he walked\n\n1469\n01:06:05.040 --> 01:06:05.760\nin the door in\n\n1470\n01:06:05.760 --> 01:06:10.720\nmeetings after that period of time but he worked his way back in and rebuilt\n\n1471\n01:06:10.720 --> 01:06:11.760\ntrust and\n\n1472\n01:06:11.760 --> 01:06:18.230\nand gained the the approval of his team for someone who needs to repair trust\n\n1473\n01:06:18.230 --> 01:06:18.800\nfor the team\n\n1474\n01:06:18.800 --> 01:06:22.880\nafter a pretty significant misstep what would you tell them to do I think the\n\n1475\n01:06:22.880 --> 01:06:23.680\nfirst thing you have\n\n1476\n01:06:23.680 --> 01:06:30.430\nto do is is go public with the fact that you were accountable take\n\n1477\n01:06:30.430 --> 01:06:33.440\naccountability say hey this was\n\n1478\n01:06:33.440 --> 01:06:39.520\nmy job this was my role and it didn't work out well now that's one thing but\n\n1479\n01:06:39.520 --> 01:06:40.560\nthe the most important\n\n1480\n01:06:40.560 --> 01:06:45.220\nthing I think is what can we learn from it you know what can we learn so that\n\n1481\n01:06:45.220 --> 01:06:46.400\nit doesn't happen\n\n1482\n01:06:46.400 --> 01:06:51.240\nagain or what can we learn that we can build into whatever we're working on to\n\n1483\n01:06:51.240 --> 01:06:51.840\nmake sure that\n\n1484\n01:06:51.840 --> 01:06:56.760\nyou know we have you know a much higher success factor I think taking\n\n1485\n01:06:56.760 --> 01:06:58.240\naccountability for\n\n1486\n01:06:58.800 --> 01:07:03.320\nmessing up to the fact that hey you're the you know you acknowledge the fact\n\n1487\n01:07:03.320 --> 01:07:04.080\nyou could have done it\n\n1488\n01:07:04.080 --> 01:07:08.020\nbetter and then learning from it is great and then the third thing is get your\n\n1489\n01:07:08.020 --> 01:07:09.360\nhead out of the sand\n\n1490\n01:07:09.360 --> 01:07:14.650\nokay keep your head high you know everybody makes mistakes you know still stay\n\n1491\n01:07:14.650 --> 01:07:16.480\npositive about\n\n1492\n01:07:16.480 --> 01:07:22.550\nyour capability and what you can you can bring to the party so don't get into a\n\n1493\n01:07:22.550 --> 01:07:23.920\nwoe is me mode\n\n1494\n01:07:23.920 --> 01:07:27.880\nbecause that'll just take you further down the tank you know people really want\n\n1495\n01:07:27.880 --> 01:07:28.880\nto be inspired\n\n1496\n01:07:28.880 --> 01:07:34.710\nby people who are vulnerable they're honest they take about accountability but\n\n1497\n01:07:34.710 --> 01:07:35.760\nthey move on\n\n1498\n01:07:35.760 --> 01:07:41.520\nbecause they've learned and that energy is contagious it also makes me think\n\n1499\n01:07:41.520 --> 01:07:42.960\nabout all of the small\n\n1500\n01:07:42.960 --> 01:07:46.960\nthings that we do to build trust with people like of course there are the the\n\n1501\n01:07:46.960 --> 01:07:48.080\nlarger things that\n\n1502\n01:07:48.080 --> 01:07:50.950\nallow us to build trust with people you know we say we're going to accomplish\n\n1503\n01:07:50.950 --> 01:07:51.920\nsomething and we take\n\n1504\n01:07:51.920 --> 01:07:57.120\nour team with us to do it but when you think about trust on a more almost acute\n\n1505\n01:07:57.120 --> 01:07:58.880\nscale trust is built\n\n1506\n01:07:58.880 --> 01:08:04.100\nby doing what you say you're going to do over time so I would also add to that\n\n1507\n01:08:04.100 --> 01:08:05.200\nDavid you know if\n\n1508\n01:08:05.200 --> 01:08:09.320\nyou do need to build trust in addition to saying hey everybody I made this huge\n\n1509\n01:08:09.320 --> 01:08:10.240\nmistake here's what\n\n1510\n01:08:10.240 --> 01:08:13.840\nwe can learn from it I also think that the more you can show up for your team\n\n1511\n01:08:13.840 --> 01:08:14.880\nsay you're going to do\n\n1512\n01:08:14.880 --> 01:08:18.160\nsomething and follow through on those things no matter how large the scale of\n\n1513\n01:08:18.160 --> 01:08:19.040\nthose things are\n\n1514\n01:08:19.680 --> 01:08:25.750\nthat'll go a really long way in helping you repair what has been broken yeah if\n\n1515\n01:08:25.750 --> 01:08:26.960\nthe mistake or whatever\n\n1516\n01:08:26.960 --> 01:08:32.180\nyou did that didn't work out is is more of a one-off and not really reflective\n\n1517\n01:08:32.180 --> 01:08:33.200\nof your overall\n\n1518\n01:08:33.200 --> 01:08:38.120\nperformance and that you've built trust over time I mean people are much more\n\n1519\n01:08:38.120 --> 01:08:39.760\nlikely to give you\n\n1520\n01:08:39.760 --> 01:08:44.680\na do over or to follow you in any of you and I couldn't agree more you know\n\n1521\n01:08:44.680 --> 01:08:46.560\nbefore we go I was\n\n1522\n01:08:46.560 --> 01:08:51.970\njust thinking about one of my my major league failures when I was running\n\n1523\n01:08:51.970 --> 01:08:53.600\nmarketing for pizza\n\n1524\n01:08:53.600 --> 01:09:01.220\nwe had this a great idea to team up with back to the future too so we we\n\n1525\n01:09:01.220 --> 01:09:02.000\ndecided what we were\n\n1526\n01:09:02.000 --> 01:09:05.170\ngoing to do is get all these people and back to the future two to wear these\n\n1527\n01:09:05.170 --> 01:09:06.000\nsolar shades he's\n\n1528\n01:09:06.000 --> 01:09:11.220\nreally modernistic solar shades and they would be they you know they would be\n\n1529\n01:09:11.220 --> 01:09:12.480\nvery popular and\n\n1530\n01:09:12.480 --> 01:09:16.800\njust be all over the movie and then everybody would want to have them and\n\n1531\n01:09:16.800 --> 01:09:20.200\nand once they wanted to have them the only place that they could get them was\n\n1532\n01:09:20.200 --> 01:09:21.360\nguess where our pizza\n\n1533\n01:09:21.360 --> 01:09:28.880\nso we we we created these goofy looking modernistic looking sunglasses and the\n\n1534\n01:09:28.880 --> 01:09:30.240\nthe problem was is\n\n1535\n01:09:30.240 --> 01:09:35.730\nthe the movie broke in December okay and not too many people you know where\n\n1536\n01:09:35.730 --> 01:09:37.040\nsunglasses in in\n\n1537\n01:09:37.040 --> 01:09:40.600\nDecember and that's when we had the promotion and the other problem was I'll\n\n1538\n01:09:40.600 --> 01:09:42.320\nnever forget standing up\n\n1539\n01:09:42.320 --> 01:09:47.980\nand making a big presentation to internally and with the franchisees about how\n\n1540\n01:09:47.980 --> 01:09:48.560\nwe were going to be\n\n1541\n01:09:48.560 --> 01:09:56.170\nthe largest seller of sunglasses in the world okay and guess what we're going\n\n1542\n01:09:56.170 --> 01:09:57.360\nto do it in December\n\n1543\n01:09:57.360 --> 01:10:00.640\nI know that sounds really stupid but we didn't have total control over the\n\n1544\n01:10:00.640 --> 01:10:01.680\nrelease of the movie\n\n1545\n01:10:01.680 --> 01:10:06.600\nbut I'll never forget going to Chicago and talking to this restaurant general\n\n1546\n01:10:06.600 --> 01:10:07.040\nmanager and\n\n1547\n01:10:07.040 --> 01:10:11.960\nI asked him I asked him a question not necessarily a great insightful question\n\n1548\n01:10:11.960 --> 01:10:12.560\nbut I said hey you\n\n1549\n01:10:12.560 --> 01:10:16.590\nknow what would you like to see have us have us do you know in the marketing\n\n1550\n01:10:16.590 --> 01:10:18.480\nworld that we're\n\n1551\n01:10:18.480 --> 01:10:22.360\nnot doing now and could could help you drive sales and he says I think he ought\n\n1552\n01:10:22.360 --> 01:10:23.280\nto go fire that\n\n1553\n01:10:23.280 --> 01:10:30.160\nasshole that came up with the solar stage for lunch so anyway I'm not saying I\n\n1554\n01:10:30.160 --> 01:10:31.280\ntotally came up\n\n1555\n01:10:31.280 --> 01:10:36.500\nfor that by myself but I took 1000% accountability for it because I believe\n\n1556\n01:10:36.500 --> 01:10:37.280\nanything that happens\n\n1557\n01:10:37.280 --> 01:10:43.120\non your watch is your accountability and I also told the story many many times\n\n1558\n01:10:43.120 --> 01:10:44.000\nof all the things\n\n1559\n01:10:44.000 --> 01:10:47.700\nthat we could have done differently to ensure a better outcome the other thing\n\n1560\n01:10:47.700 --> 01:10:48.640\nwas to have an\n\n1561\n01:10:48.640 --> 01:10:55.920\nironclad contract with the studio because what happened is that I think the the\n\n1562\n01:10:55.920 --> 01:10:57.200\nthe solar shades\n\n1563\n01:10:57.200 --> 01:11:01.610\nwere only in like two or three scenes and you could barely see them the only\n\n1564\n01:11:01.610 --> 01:11:02.400\npeople that knew they\n\n1565\n01:11:02.400 --> 01:11:09.150\nwere there was me so you know we learned from this and the other thing that was\n\n1566\n01:11:09.150 --> 01:11:10.320\nkind of interesting\n\n1567\n01:11:10.320 --> 01:11:15.240\nis that that came on the back of like five or six home run promotions you know\n\n1568\n01:11:15.240 --> 01:11:16.640\neverything we were\n\n1569\n01:11:16.640 --> 01:11:21.560\ndoing at that point in time was working and so when that happens you start to\n\n1570\n01:11:21.560 --> 01:11:22.560\nstart smelling your\n\n1571\n01:11:22.560 --> 01:11:25.360\nown perfume and you start thinking that you know you're not going to really\n\n1572\n01:11:25.360 --> 01:11:26.640\nmake too many mistakes\n\n1573\n01:11:26.640 --> 01:11:29.920\nand I think that's when you're most vulnerable to make your mistakes is when\n\n1574\n01:11:29.920 --> 01:11:30.960\nyou when you when you\n\n1575\n01:11:30.960 --> 01:11:34.810\nwhen you think you're you're you're better than you you really are and our\n\n1576\n01:11:34.810 --> 01:11:36.080\nmarketing team was\n\n1577\n01:11:36.080 --> 01:11:40.980\nwe thought there was nothing that we couldn't do and I was leading that charge\n\n1578\n01:11:40.980 --> 01:11:41.600\nand once we\n\n1579\n01:11:41.600 --> 01:11:45.670\nacknowledged the fact we made mistakes we we sold we bartered off all those\n\n1580\n01:11:45.670 --> 01:11:46.960\nsunglasses that we had\n\n1581\n01:11:46.960 --> 01:11:53.140\nleft and and we moved on but I think the reason why the organization the\n\n1582\n01:11:53.140 --> 01:11:54.960\nfranchisees and everybody\n\n1583\n01:11:54.960 --> 01:12:01.880\nwas so accepting of it was because we had had so many great successes and and\n\n1584\n01:12:01.880 --> 01:12:03.040\nalso we were very\n\n1585\n01:12:03.040 --> 01:12:06.490\nhonest about the fact that we we could have done a whole lot better do you\n\n1586\n01:12:06.490 --> 01:12:07.680\nstill have warehouses\n\n1587\n01:12:07.680 --> 01:12:13.020\nfull of those solar shades I don't know but I do have a picture of some people\n\n1588\n01:12:13.020 --> 01:12:14.160\nwearing them and\n\n1589\n01:12:14.160 --> 01:12:19.120\nI kind of I kind of keep it around every now and then just take a look at it\n\n1590\n01:12:19.120 --> 01:12:20.240\nbecause it definitely\n\n1591\n01:12:20.240 --> 01:12:26.080\nwill keep you humble I love it I love it okay David the final topic that I want\n\n1592\n01:12:26.080 --> 01:12:27.520\nto debrief with you\n\n1593\n01:12:27.520 --> 01:12:32.440\nis the idea around consultants obviously Eric is heading up one of the most\n\n1594\n01:12:32.440 --> 01:12:33.360\nsuccessful largest\n\n1595\n01:12:33.360 --> 01:12:36.920\nconsulting firms in the world and I love in the episode I mean you just\n\n1596\n01:12:36.920 --> 01:12:38.400\nstraight up confess to\n\n1597\n01:12:38.400 --> 01:12:44.670\na consultant about how you think consultants are for lazy leaders and I know\n\n1598\n01:12:44.670 --> 01:12:45.920\nyou probably don't\n\n1599\n01:12:45.920 --> 01:12:50.190\nreally mean that but I'm curious about your thoughts on consultants has has it\n\n1600\n01:12:50.190 --> 01:12:52.240\nevolved yeah well first\n\n1601\n01:12:52.240 --> 01:12:58.380\nof all I overstated that you know and because I think that I guess I'd have to\n\n1602\n01:12:58.380 --> 01:12:59.600\nbe a lazy leader\n\n1603\n01:12:59.600 --> 01:13:04.860\nbecause I have used consultants in that and in the past but the point I was\n\n1604\n01:13:04.860 --> 01:13:06.240\ntrying to make is that\n\n1605\n01:13:06.240 --> 01:13:10.550\ntoo many times the leaders use consultants for everything and they become a cr\n\n1606\n01:13:10.550 --> 01:13:11.680\nutch and they the\n\n1607\n01:13:11.680 --> 01:13:15.650\nconsultants constantly doing the thinking and the organization versus the\n\n1608\n01:13:15.650 --> 01:13:16.720\nleaders I don't think\n\n1609\n01:13:16.720 --> 01:13:21.030\nyou outsource your thinking you don't outsource the accountability for thinking\n\n1610\n01:13:21.030 --> 01:13:21.840\nand leading to\n\n1611\n01:13:21.840 --> 01:13:26.890\nsomebody else you know in fact I had a great consultant help me in an area that\n\n1612\n01:13:26.890 --> 01:13:27.760\nI needed when\n\n1613\n01:13:27.760 --> 01:13:31.550\nI first went to KFC I had this great idea to have a recognition culture and was\n\n1614\n01:13:31.550 --> 01:13:32.640\ngiving out all kinds\n\n1615\n01:13:32.640 --> 01:13:36.710\nof fun wars like floppy chickens but I would do that when I go on market tours\n\n1616\n01:13:36.710 --> 01:13:37.600\nbut I was only\n\n1617\n01:13:37.600 --> 01:13:42.520\none person and I knew that one person couldn't change a culture you had to put\n\n1618\n01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:43.040\nprocess and\n\n1619\n01:13:43.040 --> 01:13:47.300\ndiscipline around it you had to have training you had to have something to be a\n\n1620\n01:13:47.300 --> 01:13:48.480\ncatalyst and\n\n1621\n01:13:48.480 --> 01:13:54.040\nLarry sin who was the father of culture literally was named the father of the\n\n1622\n01:13:54.040 --> 01:13:55.440\nword culture and was\n\n1623\n01:13:55.440 --> 01:14:00.360\nfrom Stanford a great researcher he somehow he stumbled in my office one day\n\n1624\n01:14:00.360 --> 01:14:01.920\nand and we met and\n\n1625\n01:14:01.920 --> 01:14:05.810\nhe helped me develop all the all the processes we needed to take our culture\n\n1626\n01:14:05.810 --> 01:14:06.720\nglobally and make\n\n1627\n01:14:06.720 --> 01:14:11.640\nrecognition the thing that we became famous for and if I wouldn't add Larry I\n\n1628\n01:14:11.640 --> 01:14:12.240\nwould have been a\n\n1629\n01:14:12.240 --> 01:14:17.340\none-man band but he showed me how to scale it so he provided tremendous value\n\n1630\n01:14:17.340 --> 01:14:18.240\non that front\n\n1631\n01:14:18.240 --> 01:14:23.900\nand I've used consultants in the past to help us really identify areas to to\n\n1632\n01:14:23.900 --> 01:14:26.480\ncut costs in particular\n\n1633\n01:14:26.480 --> 01:14:32.320\nI just think consultants can be enormously powerful if they're used selectively\n\n1634\n01:14:32.320 --> 01:14:33.440\nand for the right\n\n1635\n01:14:33.440 --> 01:14:38.980\nreasons and not a crutch but I also think that Eric brought up a really good\n\n1636\n01:14:38.980 --> 01:14:39.920\npoint is that\n\n1637\n01:14:39.920 --> 01:14:44.840\nconsultants can be your thought buddy you know basically you know everybody\n\n1638\n01:14:44.840 --> 01:14:45.840\nneeds somebody on the\n\n1639\n01:14:45.840 --> 01:14:49.570\noutside to give them some independent thinking and and to push him where there\n\n1640\n01:14:49.570 --> 01:14:50.720\n's no other agenda\n\n1641\n01:14:50.720 --> 01:14:55.790\nother than to care about that that person and that company and and that's what\n\n1642\n01:14:55.790 --> 01:14:57.600\nEric does and\n\n1643\n01:14:57.600 --> 01:15:01.640\nthat's what separates him from the pack you know I've talked to many many\n\n1644\n01:15:01.640 --> 01:15:02.720\npeople who've had the\n\n1645\n01:15:02.720 --> 01:15:09.650\nbenefit of working with Eric and Eric cares about the leader he cares about the\n\n1646\n01:15:09.650 --> 01:15:10.880\ncompany he cares\n\n1647\n01:15:10.880 --> 01:15:15.800\nabout the people in the company and there's nothing that he won't do to uncover\n\n1648\n01:15:15.800 --> 01:15:16.400\nevery asset\n\n1649\n01:15:16.400 --> 01:15:22.810\nthat Mackenzie has to to help help people win and they feel that and they know\n\n1650\n01:15:22.810 --> 01:15:23.760\nthat he's in the\n\n1651\n01:15:23.760 --> 01:15:28.680\nfoxhole with him and when you can have somebody as smart as Eric in the foxhole\n\n1652\n01:15:28.680 --> 01:15:30.080\nwith you uh you've\n\n1653\n01:15:30.080 --> 01:15:34.100\ngot a real real thought buddy and you've got a real action oriented person that\n\n1654\n01:15:34.100 --> 01:15:34.640\n's going to help\n\n1655\n01:15:34.640 --> 01:15:38.760\nyou win in the marketplace and that's exactly what he does I love that he says\n\n1656\n01:15:38.760 --> 01:15:39.920\nyou know in our very\n\n1657\n01:15:39.920 --> 01:15:45.160\nbest engagements there is no distinction between Mackenzie and the client\n\n1658\n01:15:45.160 --> 01:15:47.200\nbecause we're so intertwined\n\n1659\n01:15:47.200 --> 01:15:50.480\nand everyone's so on the same page and we're all in this thing together trying\n\n1660\n01:15:50.480 --> 01:15:51.040\nto accomplish\n\n1661\n01:15:51.040 --> 01:15:54.930\nthis goal that nobody knows who's the consultant and who's the employee and I\n\n1662\n01:15:54.930 --> 01:15:56.000\njust love that because\n\n1663\n01:15:56.000 --> 01:16:00.420\nit shows exactly what you just said David he gets in there and wants nothing\n\n1664\n01:16:00.420 --> 01:16:01.200\nbut the very best and\n\n1665\n01:16:01.200 --> 01:16:05.400\nwill use everything available to him to get there and we talk about that uh uh\n\n1666\n01:16:05.400 --> 01:16:06.800\nthe concept of the\n\n1667\n01:16:06.800 --> 01:16:11.220\nshadow of the leader often and you know when you think about him running you\n\n1668\n01:16:11.220 --> 01:16:12.560\nknow such a huge piece\n\n1669\n01:16:12.560 --> 01:16:18.410\nof Mackenzie he's cast in a huge shadow that I'm sure you know drives a client\n\n1670\n01:16:18.410 --> 01:16:19.440\nfocus in that\n\n1671\n01:16:19.440 --> 01:16:24.650\norganization that's critical but if you can have people on your team no matter\n\n1672\n01:16:24.650 --> 01:16:25.680\nwhere they come\n\n1673\n01:16:25.680 --> 01:16:31.510\nfrom and you all feel as as one and you're all unified and you you you're all\n\n1674\n01:16:31.510 --> 01:16:32.560\nworking on trying\n\n1675\n01:16:32.560 --> 01:16:36.440\nto do the best to move things forward that's when you've got it made and to\n\n1676\n01:16:36.440 --> 01:16:37.440\nhave really really\n\n1677\n01:16:37.440 --> 01:16:41.340\nsmart people like they have it Mackenzie doing that for you man that's a that's\n\n1678\n01:16:41.340 --> 01:16:42.400\nthat's that can be a\n\n1679\n01:16:42.400 --> 01:16:49.150\nbig advantage so just let me repeat consultants are okay uh but they just\n\n1680\n01:16:49.150 --> 01:16:51.120\nshouldn't be used as a\n\n1681\n01:16:51.120 --> 01:16:56.780\ncrutch thought buddy thought buddy I love and I would love to have Eric is my\n\n1682\n01:16:56.780 --> 01:16:57.360\nthought buddy because\n\n1683\n01:16:57.360 --> 01:17:03.040\nhe's a lot smarter than me you don't have to agree with me no I want him for\n\n1684\n01:17:03.040 --> 01:17:04.080\nhis my thought buddy\n\n1685\n01:17:04.080 --> 01:17:07.120\noh okay I thought you were saying he's the last one or me and yes you're right\n\n1686\n01:17:07.120 --> 01:17:08.000\nbut don't agree with\n\n1687\n01:17:08.000 --> 01:17:14.080\nme David thank you so much for another fantastic episode of how leaders lead\n\n1688\n01:17:14.080 --> 01:17:14.880\nand thank you to our\n\n1689\n01:17:14.880 --> 01:17:20.960\nlisteners for tuning in to another week's episode we will see you next Thursday\n\n1690\n01:17:21.120 --> 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