[{"_1":2,"_49":-5,"_50":-5},"loaderData",{"_3":4,"_48":-5},"routes/episodes.$id",{"_5":6,"_7":8,"_9":10,"_11":12,"_13":14,"_15":-5,"_16":17,"_18":19,"_20":21,"_22":23,"_24":25,"_26":27,"_28":29,"_30":31,"_32":33,"_34":35,"_36":37,"_38":39},"id",413,"title","Take risks that teach you something","subtitle","Listen to this leadership podcast with Ania Smith, CEO of Taskrabbit, and discover how to be more agile and take the right risks.","summary","

When Ania moved to the US from Poland at the tender age of 12, she didn’t speak a word of English.

Today, she’s the CEO of Taskrabbit, after building her leadership chops at Walmart, Uber, and Airbnb.

You don’t get that kind of career trajectory by playing it safe.

In this episode, Ania shares how taking bold risks has helped her succeed, and why she’s building a culture where people are encouraged to be bold, experiment, and learn both from what works and what doesn’t.

If you want to move faster this year, this episode will get you going!

You’ll also learn:

How to be your own customer
What no one tells you about agile companies
One strategy that keeps long-term thinking front and center
A unique framework for balancing life, work, and family

","transcript","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.080\n- Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode\n\n2\n00:00:03.080 --> 00:00:05.360\nof How Leaders Lead with David Novak.\n\n3\n00:00:05.360 --> 00:00:07.400\nToday, we've got Anya Smith on the show.\n\n4\n00:00:07.400 --> 00:00:09.240\nNow, she's CEO of TaskRabbit,\n\n5\n00:00:09.240 --> 00:00:12.560\nbut she moved to the United States from Poland\n\n6\n00:00:12.560 --> 00:00:13.800\nat just 12 years old,\n\n7\n00:00:13.800 --> 00:00:17.280\nand at the time didn't speak a word of English.\n\n8\n00:00:17.280 --> 00:00:18.200\nThat didn't stop her, though,\n\n9\n00:00:18.200 --> 00:00:21.680\nfrom creating an incredible life and an incredible career.\n\n10\n00:00:21.680 --> 00:00:23.680\nShe's worked her way through leadership positions\n\n11\n00:00:23.680 --> 00:00:26.480\nat Walmart, at Uber, and at Airbnb.\n\n12\n00:00:26.480 --> 00:00:29.480\nAnd from Airbnb, she took her entire family\n\n13\n00:00:29.480 --> 00:00:31.240\nto Argentina for a gap year\n\n14\n00:00:31.240 --> 00:00:33.160\nso that they could enjoy one another\n\n15\n00:00:33.160 --> 00:00:35.740\nand grow together as a family.\n\n16\n00:00:35.740 --> 00:00:37.120\nShe moved back to the States,\n\n17\n00:00:37.120 --> 00:00:40.600\ntook over a CEO of TaskRabbit, and in today's episode,\n\n18\n00:00:40.600 --> 00:00:43.880\nyou'll hear how Anya's focus on taking bold risks\n\n19\n00:00:43.880 --> 00:00:45.760\nhas helped her succeed.\n\n20\n00:00:45.760 --> 00:00:47.400\nYou'll also learn why every leader\n\n21\n00:00:47.400 --> 00:00:48.520\nshould be building a culture\n\n22\n00:00:48.520 --> 00:00:51.760\nwhere people feel encouraged to be bold.\n\n23\n00:00:51.760 --> 00:00:54.120\nEnjoy this conversation between David and Anya,\n\n24\n00:00:54.120 --> 00:00:56.720\nand I will see you at the very end of the episode\n\n25\n00:00:56.720 --> 00:00:58.440\nfor the debrief.\n\n26\n00:00:58.440 --> 00:01:00.040\n- It is about being bold.\n\n27\n00:01:00.040 --> 00:01:02.160\nIt is about feeling safe enough\n\n28\n00:01:02.160 --> 00:01:07.160\nto really try a lot of things that may or may not work,\n\n29\n00:01:07.160 --> 00:01:08.760\nand knowing that it's okay\n\n30\n00:01:08.760 --> 00:01:11.080\nbecause that's the only way you can learn\n\n31\n00:01:11.080 --> 00:01:13.440\nand actually try and do better next time.\n\n32\n00:01:13.440 --> 00:01:20.840\n- Anya, I have to start with this.\n\n33\n00:01:20.840 --> 00:01:23.080\nYou know, most executives,\n\n34\n00:01:23.080 --> 00:01:25.760\nthey take a vacation every now and then,\n\n35\n00:01:25.760 --> 00:01:28.400\nbut when you were at Airbnb,\n\n36\n00:01:28.400 --> 00:01:30.720\nyou took your whole family,\n\n37\n00:01:30.720 --> 00:01:32.520\nnot on a couple of weeks trip.\n\n38\n00:01:32.520 --> 00:01:35.840\nYou took them on a gap year in Argentina.\n\n39\n00:01:35.840 --> 00:01:40.840\nWhat did your kids teach you about leadership on that trip?\n\n40\n00:01:40.840 --> 00:01:43.360\n- Well, I think the first lesson\n\n41\n00:01:43.360 --> 00:01:46.760\nis how very different each one of them is,\n\n42\n00:01:46.760 --> 00:01:49.640\nI have three kids and they couldn't be more different,\n\n43\n00:01:49.640 --> 00:01:51.960\nand just like the teams that I work with\n\n44\n00:01:51.960 --> 00:01:54.040\nand the individuals that I work with,\n\n45\n00:01:54.040 --> 00:01:56.640\nwhether they're on my team or, you know,\n\n46\n00:01:56.640 --> 00:01:59.200\nfurther in the organization,\n\n47\n00:01:59.200 --> 00:02:02.160\nit's very clear that everyone is very different\n\n48\n00:02:02.160 --> 00:02:04.800\nand what motivates people is really different.\n\n49\n00:02:04.800 --> 00:02:08.600\nI think that the second thing that was really insightful\n\n50\n00:02:08.600 --> 00:02:11.960\nis understanding that, you know,\n\n51\n00:02:11.960 --> 00:02:15.320\nwhat makes one child very happy,\n\n52\n00:02:15.320 --> 00:02:18.840\nthe second child may be way less happy about, right?\n\n53\n00:02:18.840 --> 00:02:21.880\nSo we moved into the center of Buenos Aires,\n\n54\n00:02:21.880 --> 00:02:22.840\nwhich is really fun.\n\n55\n00:02:22.840 --> 00:02:25.920\nMy husband and I had met in New York City\n\n56\n00:02:25.920 --> 00:02:30.120\nand then we've lived sort of in London and downtown areas.\n\n57\n00:02:30.120 --> 00:02:34.440\nSo always wanted to be in these centers\n\n58\n00:02:34.440 --> 00:02:37.840\nand our kids had only grown up really\n\n59\n00:02:37.840 --> 00:02:40.040\nin more of a suburb feel.\n\n60\n00:02:40.040 --> 00:02:44.960\nSo this was exciting for some and less exciting for others.\n\n61\n00:02:44.960 --> 00:02:46.600\nLike, of course, we didn't have a car\n\n62\n00:02:46.600 --> 00:02:48.520\nbecause we could walk everywhere\n\n63\n00:02:48.520 --> 00:02:50.840\nand, you know, not everyone loved that,\n\n64\n00:02:50.840 --> 00:02:55.840\nbut I think pretty soon learning how to live through change\n\n65\n00:02:56.080 --> 00:03:01.080\nand adversity and learning how to find your way\n\n66\n00:03:01.080 --> 00:03:03.280\nand places that are very different.\n\n67\n00:03:03.280 --> 00:03:05.760\nI think it's a lesson for not just my kids,\n\n68\n00:03:05.760 --> 00:03:08.600\nbut for myself, my husband and for all of us.\n\n69\n00:03:08.600 --> 00:03:11.440\nSort of when we stay very comfortable,\n\n70\n00:03:11.440 --> 00:03:15.520\nI think the learning ends up being a little bit less.\n\n71\n00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:18.320\nAnd so it's good to sometimes take ourselves\n\n72\n00:03:18.320 --> 00:03:19.680\nout of the comfort zone.\n\n73\n00:03:19.680 --> 00:03:22.440\n- Yeah, well, you just went right into that frying pan\n\n74\n00:03:22.440 --> 00:03:24.720\nwith the whole family and learned a lot, you know,\n\n75\n00:03:24.720 --> 00:03:27.280\nand when you did this, you were working at Airbnb\n\n76\n00:03:27.280 --> 00:03:30.840\nand you were the head of operations in North America.\n\n77\n00:03:30.840 --> 00:03:32.720\nDid people think you were crazy doing this?\n\n78\n00:03:32.720 --> 00:03:34.240\nI mean, this could be a career stopper.\n\n79\n00:03:34.240 --> 00:03:36.400\nWhat gave you the courage to even do it?\n\n80\n00:03:36.400 --> 00:03:38.320\n- You know, it was before the pandemic.\n\n81\n00:03:38.320 --> 00:03:41.880\nSo I would say the good thing now is it's the concept\n\n82\n00:03:41.880 --> 00:03:45.920\nof a gap year is not as big of a deal today,\n\n83\n00:03:45.920 --> 00:03:49.120\nlike the five, six short years as it was back then.\n\n84\n00:03:49.120 --> 00:03:51.600\nI did have some people tell me, you know,\n\n85\n00:03:51.600 --> 00:03:54.680\nyou're just kind of getting going with your career.\n\n86\n00:03:54.680 --> 00:03:57.600\nThis is going to be hard or maybe hard to explain\n\n87\n00:03:57.600 --> 00:04:00.760\nthat you're break in your on your CB.\n\n88\n00:04:00.760 --> 00:04:02.480\nWhat are you gonna say?\n\n89\n00:04:02.480 --> 00:04:04.400\nBut I was fairly determined.\n\n90\n00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:08.160\nMy husband and I made this decision way prior\n\n91\n00:04:08.160 --> 00:04:10.600\nto the actual execution.\n\n92\n00:04:10.600 --> 00:04:14.280\nSo, you know, five years prior because we didn't have enough\n\n93\n00:04:14.280 --> 00:04:17.560\nmoney and we had to save money in order to actually be able\n\n94\n00:04:17.560 --> 00:04:19.400\nto not work for a year.\n\n95\n00:04:19.400 --> 00:04:22.080\nAnd we had to do some planning around what are we gonna do\n\n96\n00:04:22.080 --> 00:04:24.080\nwith the kids, what are we gonna do with our house\n\n97\n00:04:24.080 --> 00:04:25.880\nand so on and so forth.\n\n98\n00:04:25.880 --> 00:04:28.280\nSo it wasn't sort of a rush decision.\n\n99\n00:04:28.280 --> 00:04:32.080\nAnd I was pretty certain that we'll always be able\n\n100\n00:04:32.080 --> 00:04:34.240\nto find jobs.\n\n101\n00:04:34.240 --> 00:04:38.240\nYou know, we're both educated people who have done\n\n102\n00:04:38.240 --> 00:04:40.760\nsome things and hopefully we'll be able to figure out\n\n103\n00:04:40.760 --> 00:04:43.520\nhow to do some other things when we return.\n\n104\n00:04:43.520 --> 00:04:47.760\nSo even though I was obviously somewhat concerned,\n\n105\n00:04:47.760 --> 00:04:50.440\nI really felt that the learnings and the growth\n\n106\n00:04:50.440 --> 00:04:53.840\nand the adventure and the spirit and the having the time\n\n107\n00:04:53.840 --> 00:04:57.560\nwith our family as a unit of five to spend together\n\n108\n00:04:57.560 --> 00:05:00.640\na little bit more was well worth the effort.\n\n109\n00:05:00.640 --> 00:05:03.520\n- Well, we're gonna get into task rabbit here in a bit,\n\n110\n00:05:03.520 --> 00:05:07.920\nbut I'm curious on you, what's the story from your childhood\n\n111\n00:05:07.920 --> 00:05:10.400\nthat shaped the kind of leader you are today?\n\n112\n00:05:10.400 --> 00:05:13.320\n- I think probably one of the biggest stories\n\n113\n00:05:13.320 --> 00:05:17.400\nis the fact that I moved here when I was 12\n\n114\n00:05:17.400 --> 00:05:18.240\nfrom Poland.\n\n115\n00:05:18.240 --> 00:05:23.240\nSo I arrived in Sioux Falls, South Dakota of all places.\n\n116\n00:05:23.240 --> 00:05:27.160\nAnd I didn't know how to speak English.\n\n117\n00:05:27.160 --> 00:05:28.960\nAnd neither really did my parents,\n\n118\n00:05:28.960 --> 00:05:32.200\nnor did their degrees sort of transfer over.\n\n119\n00:05:32.200 --> 00:05:35.080\nSo they had to work really hard to make ends meet.\n\n120\n00:05:35.080 --> 00:05:38.080\nAnd that meant that I had to work really hard as well\n\n121\n00:05:38.080 --> 00:05:41.160\nto help out because we just didn't have enough money.\n\n122\n00:05:41.160 --> 00:05:45.400\nAnd so very early on, I learned that the opportunity\n\n123\n00:05:45.400 --> 00:05:47.720\nin America was pretty profound.\n\n124\n00:05:47.720 --> 00:05:52.720\nSo I got my first job at 12 as I had a paper out\n\n125\n00:05:52.720 --> 00:05:56.400\nand started earning cash.\n\n126\n00:05:56.400 --> 00:05:58.240\nAnd that was really exciting.\n\n127\n00:05:58.240 --> 00:06:01.360\nAnd it also is part of the paper route.\n\n128\n00:06:01.360 --> 00:06:03.880\nI, we needed to sell the paper.\n\n129\n00:06:03.880 --> 00:06:06.680\nAnd so on weekends, we would go door to door\n\n130\n00:06:06.680 --> 00:06:08.640\nto try to sell subscriptions.\n\n131\n00:06:08.640 --> 00:06:12.160\nAnd those lessons of sort of being told no\n\n132\n00:06:12.160 --> 00:06:15.200\nover and over and over a thousand times,\n\n133\n00:06:15.200 --> 00:06:17.000\nstay with you really a lifetime.\n\n134\n00:06:17.000 --> 00:06:21.160\nSo I think understanding how to be accountable,\n\n135\n00:06:21.160 --> 00:06:23.680\nhow to be responsible, how to work hard.\n\n136\n00:06:23.680 --> 00:06:27.360\nAnd then also how to be able to work through adversity\n\n137\n00:06:27.360 --> 00:06:29.840\nare some of the main lessons that I took\n\n138\n00:06:29.840 --> 00:06:34.240\nfrom those early days of trying to make ends meet\n\n139\n00:06:34.240 --> 00:06:37.160\nwhen things were not so rosy.\n\n140\n00:06:37.160 --> 00:06:41.040\n- Yeah, curiously, you know, I actually sold\n\n141\n00:06:41.040 --> 00:06:44.040\nin Psychopedia's door to door when I was a kid, okay?\n\n142\n00:06:44.040 --> 00:06:44.880\n- God bless you.\n\n143\n00:06:44.880 --> 00:06:47.600\n- So you're out there selling newspapers, you know,\n\n144\n00:06:47.600 --> 00:06:50.040\ndid you pick up one thing that helped you make the sale\n\n145\n00:06:50.040 --> 00:06:51.800\nmore than anything else?\n\n146\n00:06:51.800 --> 00:06:55.120\n- I would try to ask questions more\n\n147\n00:06:55.120 --> 00:06:58.560\nand listen more than trying to sell.\n\n148\n00:06:58.560 --> 00:07:01.280\nSo I would have these questions around the news\n\n149\n00:07:01.280 --> 00:07:03.600\nand I barely knew what the news was.\n\n150\n00:07:03.600 --> 00:07:06.600\nBut I focus particularly on the local news\n\n151\n00:07:06.600 --> 00:07:08.640\nand local sports teams.\n\n152\n00:07:08.640 --> 00:07:10.520\nAnd I would talk about, did you know\n\n153\n00:07:10.520 --> 00:07:13.480\nthat the O'Gorman Knights did this or this\n\n154\n00:07:13.480 --> 00:07:17.600\nand you can read more stories like this in the Argus leader\n\n155\n00:07:17.600 --> 00:07:20.680\nand that seemed to help a little bit.\n\n156\n00:07:20.680 --> 00:07:21.520\n- That's great.\n\n157\n00:07:21.520 --> 00:07:24.160\nMy big pitch was if I could show you away\n\n158\n00:07:24.160 --> 00:07:26.640\nto give your kid a better education,\n\n159\n00:07:26.640 --> 00:07:28.800\nwould you be interested, John and Mary?\n\n160\n00:07:28.800 --> 00:07:29.720\nAnd then I got you in the door.\n\n161\n00:07:29.720 --> 00:07:31.040\n- Who's gonna say no yet?\n\n162\n00:07:31.040 --> 00:07:32.560\nExactly.\n\n163\n00:07:32.560 --> 00:07:34.520\n- Now, as I understand it on you,\n\n164\n00:07:34.520 --> 00:07:37.760\nyour dad moved to the United States from Poland\n\n165\n00:07:37.760 --> 00:07:41.600\nthree years before the rest of the family did.\n\n166\n00:07:41.600 --> 00:07:44.360\nWhat kind of impact did that have on you?\n\n167\n00:07:44.360 --> 00:07:47.280\n- I mean, so it was actually two years before,\n\n168\n00:07:47.280 --> 00:07:49.840\nbut he had been gone from Poland for three years\n\n169\n00:07:49.840 --> 00:07:54.040\nbecause he was first in a refugee camp in Austria.\n\n170\n00:07:54.040 --> 00:07:55.520\nI think it's really hard,\n\n171\n00:07:55.520 --> 00:07:58.760\nbut I don't know that I really recognized it as a child\n\n172\n00:07:58.760 --> 00:08:01.520\nas much as I do now being a parent\n\n173\n00:08:01.520 --> 00:08:05.680\nbecause now the thought of my kids not seeing their dad\n\n174\n00:08:05.680 --> 00:08:08.840\nfor three years seems extremely difficult\n\n175\n00:08:08.840 --> 00:08:11.520\nand it sort of shows me a lot more appreciation\n\n176\n00:08:11.520 --> 00:08:14.960\nfor my mom and really just how tough it is\n\n177\n00:08:14.960 --> 00:08:18.920\nto be a single mom and to actually make things work\n\n178\n00:08:18.920 --> 00:08:19.760\non your own.\n\n179\n00:08:19.760 --> 00:08:22.760\nI think as a child, I miss my dad,\n\n180\n00:08:22.760 --> 00:08:25.120\nbut I was also very excited at the prospect\n\n181\n00:08:25.120 --> 00:08:26.640\nof reuniting with him again.\n\n182\n00:08:26.640 --> 00:08:28.920\nAnd so when that news came through,\n\n183\n00:08:28.920 --> 00:08:32.720\nit was very exciting and very gratifying.\n\n184\n00:08:32.720 --> 00:08:35.800\n- You talked about how the opportunities in America\n\n185\n00:08:35.800 --> 00:08:40.800\nare so profound and here you come across the pond\n\n186\n00:08:40.800 --> 00:08:45.080\nand you can't speak the language.\n\n187\n00:08:45.080 --> 00:08:49.840\nDid you find the impressions of America match up\n\n188\n00:08:49.840 --> 00:08:51.800\nwith what you thought it would be to,\n\n189\n00:08:51.800 --> 00:08:56.040\nor did it exceed it or how did it all sync up?\n\n190\n00:08:56.040 --> 00:08:59.640\n- It's hard to really, I guess,\n\n191\n00:08:59.640 --> 00:09:01.840\nunderstand what the expectations were.\n\n192\n00:09:01.840 --> 00:09:04.880\nOur expectations were like the movies.\n\n193\n00:09:04.880 --> 00:09:08.800\nThe movies in the late '70s and early '80s\n\n194\n00:09:08.800 --> 00:09:11.800\nand that's what we would kind of see.\n\n195\n00:09:11.800 --> 00:09:14.120\nBut really, it's when you show up\n\n196\n00:09:14.120 --> 00:09:17.720\nand I mean, as many immigrants will tell you the story,\n\n197\n00:09:17.720 --> 00:09:19.600\nit's that walk into the grocery store\n\n198\n00:09:19.600 --> 00:09:24.600\nfor the very first time that ends up being extremely overwhelming\n\n199\n00:09:24.600 --> 00:09:27.240\nand just almost unbelievable.\n\n200\n00:09:27.240 --> 00:09:29.840\nAnd that is certainly what happened to us as well.\n\n201\n00:09:29.840 --> 00:09:33.000\nYou just, I came from somewhere where at the time\n\n202\n00:09:33.000 --> 00:09:34.840\nthere were lines to get into the store\n\n203\n00:09:34.840 --> 00:09:37.560\nand there were lines and food was rationed\n\n204\n00:09:37.560 --> 00:09:40.600\nthen you could only get however many kilos of meat\n\n205\n00:09:40.600 --> 00:09:43.640\nand however many kilos of sugar or candy\n\n206\n00:09:43.640 --> 00:09:47.760\nand the grocery store shelves were in fact empty.\n\n207\n00:09:47.760 --> 00:09:52.760\nAnd so to walk into a store where there is so much produce\n\n208\n00:09:52.760 --> 00:09:56.680\nand it's being sprayed on with water to look more fresh\n\n209\n00:09:56.680 --> 00:09:58.680\nand it looks beyond perfect,\n\n210\n00:09:58.680 --> 00:10:00.720\nit's pretty crazy.\n\n211\n00:10:00.720 --> 00:10:03.680\n- Yeah, and that was happening in South Dakota\n\n212\n00:10:03.680 --> 00:10:05.760\nand most people have never been there, you know?\n\n213\n00:10:05.760 --> 00:10:06.760\n- Exactly.\n\n214\n00:10:06.760 --> 00:10:11.400\n- I've heard it said that you can't be what you cannot see.\n\n215\n00:10:11.400 --> 00:10:13.680\nWho did you have as a model to show you\n\n216\n00:10:13.680 --> 00:10:17.080\nwhat was possible in your life and career?\n\n217\n00:10:17.080 --> 00:10:20.240\n- Really actually growing up in South Dakota,\n\n218\n00:10:20.240 --> 00:10:23.440\nthe models that I had were people who were willing\n\n219\n00:10:23.440 --> 00:10:26.360\nto extend a hand and who were very helpful.\n\n220\n00:10:26.360 --> 00:10:29.400\nI didn't necessarily have models of my career\n\n221\n00:10:29.400 --> 00:10:33.000\nbeing somewhere outside, it seemed so far-fetched\n\n222\n00:10:33.000 --> 00:10:38.000\nand so frankly, not in a possibility of my life.\n\n223\n00:10:38.000 --> 00:10:43.120\nBut I did learn a lot from people who had surrounded me\n\n224\n00:10:43.120 --> 00:10:45.840\nand my family and were really willing to help.\n\n225\n00:10:45.840 --> 00:10:49.560\nI particularly think about teachers who were there\n\n226\n00:10:49.560 --> 00:10:52.520\nvery early on who were teaching us English.\n\n227\n00:10:52.520 --> 00:10:57.520\nYou know, we landed in February and by May,\n\n228\n00:10:57.520 --> 00:10:59.840\na school got out.\n\n229\n00:10:59.840 --> 00:11:02.360\nWe could slightly speak a little bit of English\n\n230\n00:11:02.360 --> 00:11:04.760\nbut certainly need a lot more help.\n\n231\n00:11:04.760 --> 00:11:07.000\nAnd you know, this one teacher in particular,\n\n232\n00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:09.560\nMs. Carlson, she took my brother and I\n\n233\n00:11:09.560 --> 00:11:11.680\nand every day we would meet at school\n\n234\n00:11:11.680 --> 00:11:13.320\nand she didn't have to do this\n\n235\n00:11:13.320 --> 00:11:15.800\njust so that she could read to us.\n\n236\n00:11:15.800 --> 00:11:20.440\nAnd that kind of helped and just being so selfless\n\n237\n00:11:20.440 --> 00:11:24.000\nand being able to give to another human is really profound.\n\n238\n00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:27.120\nAnd I think those are likely the biggest lessons\n\n239\n00:11:27.120 --> 00:11:31.360\nthat I've learned in terms of having a career mentor\n\n240\n00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:33.080\nso early on.\n\n241\n00:11:33.080 --> 00:11:35.920\nOnce I left and went to college\n\n242\n00:11:35.920 --> 00:11:38.400\nand started going through different competitions\n\n243\n00:11:38.400 --> 00:11:41.400\nand different, you know, doing different things\n\n244\n00:11:41.400 --> 00:11:44.360\noutside of college, I also had the opportunity\n\n245\n00:11:44.360 --> 00:11:49.360\njust to intern at USAID, which of course now no longer exists.\n\n246\n00:11:50.200 --> 00:11:54.280\nYou know, there are many, many mentors who came around\n\n247\n00:11:54.280 --> 00:11:58.960\nand really taught me the importance of hard work\n\n248\n00:11:58.960 --> 00:12:01.560\nor the importance of building certain skill sets\n\n249\n00:12:01.560 --> 00:12:03.160\nand so on and so forth.\n\n250\n00:12:03.160 --> 00:12:06.400\nBut it's those early folks in Sioux Falls\n\n251\n00:12:06.400 --> 00:12:10.680\nthat I credit for a lot of, really my success.\n\n252\n00:12:10.680 --> 00:12:12.920\n- Great, you know, and you worked at Booz Allen\n\n253\n00:12:12.920 --> 00:12:14.560\nright out of college.\n\n254\n00:12:14.560 --> 00:12:17.480\nWhat have been a consultant teach you about leadership?\n\n255\n00:12:18.920 --> 00:12:21.600\n- I think there are a few things,\n\n256\n00:12:21.600 --> 00:12:24.680\nbut one is that the problems are very difficult\n\n257\n00:12:24.680 --> 00:12:26.680\nand even people who are very, very smart\n\n258\n00:12:26.680 --> 00:12:29.000\ndon't necessarily have all the answers.\n\n259\n00:12:29.000 --> 00:12:35.040\nI focus primarily on working for either USAID or World Bank\n\n260\n00:12:35.040 --> 00:12:39.800\nand we were doing a lot of development work internationally.\n\n261\n00:12:39.800 --> 00:12:42.400\nAnd so we were working with big governments\n\n262\n00:12:42.400 --> 00:12:46.800\nand big institutions trying to think about concepts\n\n263\n00:12:46.800 --> 00:12:51.080\nlike the rule of law or competition law and so forth.\n\n264\n00:12:51.080 --> 00:12:52.600\nAnd that was really exciting.\n\n265\n00:12:52.600 --> 00:12:55.760\nI was just a sponge willing to do anything\n\n266\n00:12:55.760 --> 00:12:58.480\nand really willing to learn a lot.\n\n267\n00:12:58.480 --> 00:13:01.680\nBut what was very clear is that the problems\n\n268\n00:13:01.680 --> 00:13:06.680\nwere very complex and people who were way smarter than me,\n\n269\n00:13:06.680 --> 00:13:10.920\nyou know, all my colleagues were sort of Ivy League,\n\n270\n00:13:10.920 --> 00:13:13.480\nHarvard, Yale, Princeton, educated.\n\n271\n00:13:13.480 --> 00:13:16.640\nAnd we were all grappling with pretty difficult challenges\n\n272\n00:13:16.640 --> 00:13:21.440\nand I found the atmosphere very, almost riveting,\n\n273\n00:13:21.440 --> 00:13:22.400\nvery exciting.\n\n274\n00:13:22.400 --> 00:13:25.720\nAnd I really loved the people with whom I got to work\n\n275\n00:13:25.720 --> 00:13:27.720\nand some of the problems that I got to solve.\n\n276\n00:13:27.720 --> 00:13:30.800\nBut I did feel like I needed to go back to school\n\n277\n00:13:30.800 --> 00:13:35.800\nto gain more technical skills to continue going.\n\n278\n00:13:35.800 --> 00:13:38.640\n- And you know, you work for some great companies\n\n279\n00:13:38.640 --> 00:13:41.680\non your way to being CEO, you worked at Walmart\n\n280\n00:13:41.680 --> 00:13:45.280\nand the largest retailer in the world.\n\n281\n00:13:45.280 --> 00:13:48.160\nWhat did you learn about leadership at Walmart?\n\n282\n00:13:48.160 --> 00:13:52.080\n- I think what I did learn is that\n\n283\n00:13:52.080 --> 00:13:57.080\nsometimes when a company is so big as Walmart obviously is,\n\n284\n00:13:57.080 --> 00:14:01.520\nthe decision-making process can be really slow\n\n285\n00:14:01.520 --> 00:14:05.080\nand trying to figure out how to stay nimble\n\n286\n00:14:05.080 --> 00:14:07.560\nand how to make decisions really quickly\n\n287\n00:14:07.560 --> 00:14:09.480\nwas really important.\n\n288\n00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:11.680\nAnd one of the ways of doing that\n\n289\n00:14:11.680 --> 00:14:15.080\nis figuring out really early who has the power\n\n290\n00:14:15.080 --> 00:14:16.760\nto make the decision.\n\n291\n00:14:16.760 --> 00:14:20.280\nAnd knowing that before you put a lot of time\n\n292\n00:14:20.280 --> 00:14:22.560\nand investment and effort trying to influence\n\n293\n00:14:22.560 --> 00:14:26.040\na set of people who may be in a given day\n\n294\n00:14:26.040 --> 00:14:27.720\nor time or in this structure\n\n295\n00:14:27.720 --> 00:14:30.320\ndon't actually have the power to make the decision.\n\n296\n00:14:30.320 --> 00:14:33.280\nSo understanding who has the power to make the decision\n\n297\n00:14:33.280 --> 00:14:35.120\nI think is really important.\n\n298\n00:14:35.120 --> 00:14:38.000\nAnd in a sort of very matrix organization\n\n299\n00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:42.720\nthat was very much the focus on the e-commerce world\n\n300\n00:14:42.720 --> 00:14:44.720\nhere in Silicon Valley, which is why I work\n\n301\n00:14:44.720 --> 00:14:47.080\nversus Bentonville, which is sort of the,\n\n302\n00:14:47.080 --> 00:14:49.200\nobviously the home base.\n\n303\n00:14:49.200 --> 00:14:52.240\nThere was a lot of tension between that too\n\n304\n00:14:52.240 --> 00:14:55.360\nand trying to get the clarity of understanding\n\n305\n00:14:55.360 --> 00:14:56.920\nwho makes the decision.\n\n306\n00:14:56.920 --> 00:15:00.800\nI think was really important in order to make any progress.\n\n307\n00:15:00.800 --> 00:15:02.960\n- You also worked at Airbnb as we mentioned\n\n308\n00:15:02.960 --> 00:15:06.120\nand Airbnb is rooted in trust.\n\n309\n00:15:06.120 --> 00:15:09.560\nOpening your home to a stranger and feeling good about it.\n\n310\n00:15:09.560 --> 00:15:11.480\nWhat's the story from your time there\n\n311\n00:15:11.480 --> 00:15:14.400\nthat shaped how you think about building trust\n\n312\n00:15:14.400 --> 00:15:17.760\nwith customers that you use in your company today?\n\n313\n00:15:17.760 --> 00:15:20.400\n- I think first and foremost,\n\n314\n00:15:20.400 --> 00:15:22.800\nyou have to listen to your customers.\n\n315\n00:15:22.800 --> 00:15:25.320\nAnd I do that all the time today at TaskRabbit,\n\n316\n00:15:25.320 --> 00:15:29.320\nbut I did that Uber and I did that at Airbnb.\n\n317\n00:15:29.320 --> 00:15:32.480\nSometimes it may seem maybe not as fruitful\n\n318\n00:15:32.480 --> 00:15:34.880\nbecause you hear similar stories,\n\n319\n00:15:34.880 --> 00:15:36.920\nbut there's been no conversation\n\n320\n00:15:36.920 --> 00:15:40.960\nthat I've had with a TaskR or a courier or a host,\n\n321\n00:15:40.960 --> 00:15:43.360\nwhich from which I didn't come away thinking\n\n322\n00:15:43.360 --> 00:15:46.160\nabout a problem maybe slightly differently.\n\n323\n00:15:46.160 --> 00:15:50.520\nAnd after a while, you start seeing certain patterns emerge\n\n324\n00:15:50.520 --> 00:15:54.080\nor certain trends that are really hard to do\n\n325\n00:15:54.080 --> 00:15:57.160\nif you only have one-off conversation here and there.\n\n326\n00:15:57.160 --> 00:16:01.160\nAnd so for me, the essence of really building trust\n\n327\n00:16:01.160 --> 00:16:03.120\nis to be able to listen to the customers.\n\n328\n00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:05.720\nThey may not always know the answer,\n\n329\n00:16:05.720 --> 00:16:08.440\nbut really to understand the problem\n\n330\n00:16:08.440 --> 00:16:12.520\nin a way that can shape your thinking\n\n331\n00:16:12.520 --> 00:16:15.320\nabout how to build and how to solve that problem.\n\n332\n00:16:15.320 --> 00:16:18.800\nI think is essential in being able to move forward\n\n333\n00:16:18.800 --> 00:16:20.360\nand to make a difference.\n\n334\n00:16:20.360 --> 00:16:24.240\nAnd so we spent a lot of time listening\n\n335\n00:16:24.240 --> 00:16:26.560\nto our customers at Airbnb.\n\n336\n00:16:26.560 --> 00:16:28.280\n- And when you're at Uber,\n\n337\n00:16:28.280 --> 00:16:30.760\nyou're there with a company that sets a standard\n\n338\n00:16:30.760 --> 00:16:34.520\nfor on-demand convenience.\n\n339\n00:16:34.520 --> 00:16:37.400\nThat had to play a huge role\n\n340\n00:16:37.400 --> 00:16:39.360\nin how you think about your current job.\n\n341\n00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:42.080\n- Well, absolutely.\n\n342\n00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:47.080\nI mean, Uber is a fantastic marketplace.\n\n343\n00:16:47.080 --> 00:16:50.440\nAnd I would say, you know, best in class\n\n344\n00:16:50.440 --> 00:16:54.600\nin terms of being able to really optimize the match\n\n345\n00:16:54.600 --> 00:16:57.680\nbetween the client and in this case,\n\n346\n00:16:57.680 --> 00:17:02.080\nthe courier or the driver to really provide you\n\n347\n00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:06.280\nwith that convenience that is so, so much needed.\n\n348\n00:17:06.280 --> 00:17:09.920\nA test rabbit, I focus on that a lot as well,\n\n349\n00:17:09.920 --> 00:17:12.560\nbut there's a lot of things that come into that.\n\n350\n00:17:12.560 --> 00:17:16.320\nIt's not as much of a commodity product.\n\n351\n00:17:16.320 --> 00:17:18.520\nWe are trying to really solve problems\n\n352\n00:17:18.520 --> 00:17:19.680\nfor people in their homes\n\n353\n00:17:19.680 --> 00:17:22.240\nand that can be anything from picking up leads\n\n354\n00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:27.240\nto painting your nursery, to mounting a TV,\n\n355\n00:17:27.240 --> 00:17:32.480\nto cleaning before, after you move\n\n356\n00:17:32.480 --> 00:17:34.480\nor before, after you have a party\n\n357\n00:17:34.480 --> 00:17:36.920\nand so many things in between.\n\n358\n00:17:36.920 --> 00:17:39.840\nAnd being able to provide the person\n\n359\n00:17:39.840 --> 00:17:42.720\nwho the right tasker, who's highly skilled,\n\n360\n00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:45.400\nhighly dependable, who can do that job\n\n361\n00:17:45.400 --> 00:17:47.760\nand do that job really well for the right price\n\n362\n00:17:47.760 --> 00:17:51.880\nand the right time, it's a really hard problem to solve.\n\n363\n00:17:51.880 --> 00:17:56.880\nAnd so the lessons from Airbnb\n\n364\n00:17:56.880 --> 00:17:59.080\nand from Uber are very much front and center.\n\n365\n00:17:59.080 --> 00:18:02.080\nAll of these companies, we're really trying to think\n\n366\n00:18:02.080 --> 00:18:04.200\nabout how to best provide that match\n\n367\n00:18:04.200 --> 00:18:06.720\nbetween exactly what the client needs\n\n368\n00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:09.680\nand exactly the best tasker in our case,\n\n369\n00:18:09.680 --> 00:18:12.200\nwho can provide that kind of a service.\n\n370\n00:18:12.200 --> 00:18:15.560\n- So you were like the perfect match to take on the CEO role\n\n371\n00:18:15.560 --> 00:18:18.680\ngiven your past experience, you know.\n\n372\n00:18:19.800 --> 00:18:22.600\nHow excited were you to take on that CEO role\n\n373\n00:18:22.600 --> 00:18:23.800\nfor the first time?\n\n374\n00:18:23.800 --> 00:18:25.800\n- I was super excited, you know.\n\n375\n00:18:25.800 --> 00:18:30.080\nI often tell people the story of when I came here\n\n376\n00:18:30.080 --> 00:18:33.480\nand my parents, really it was hard to make ends meet\n\n377\n00:18:33.480 --> 00:18:34.800\nand we're all trying to work hard.\n\n378\n00:18:34.800 --> 00:18:38.760\nI do wish that some of these platforms existed then,\n\n379\n00:18:38.760 --> 00:18:40.640\nbut of course we didn't even have cell phones then.\n\n380\n00:18:40.640 --> 00:18:42.520\nSo it's hard to think about how that would work.\n\n381\n00:18:42.520 --> 00:18:46.080\nBut I do know that my parents would work double shifts\n\n382\n00:18:46.080 --> 00:18:47.680\nand trying to match shifts\n\n383\n00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:50.800\nand trying to get more hours and so forth.\n\n384\n00:18:50.800 --> 00:18:54.280\nIt would have been really great to have these platforms\n\n385\n00:18:54.280 --> 00:18:56.720\non the side where they could have learned a skill\n\n386\n00:18:56.720 --> 00:19:00.000\nor provided a skill just to supplement their income\n\n387\n00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:02.640\nand just to make things a bit easier.\n\n388\n00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:05.400\nAnd I meet with taskers all the time\n\n389\n00:19:05.400 --> 00:19:07.040\nand there were so many that come here\n\n390\n00:19:07.040 --> 00:19:08.960\nand they come with, you know,\n\n391\n00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:11.880\nI just met a set of taskers, they're all from Iran\n\n392\n00:19:11.880 --> 00:19:16.800\nand they were all electricians and engineers at home\n\n393\n00:19:16.800 --> 00:19:20.160\nand it's harder for them to get jobs here\n\n394\n00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:24.760\nbut they provide such great service to our customers.\n\n395\n00:19:24.760 --> 00:19:27.800\nAnd, you know, I had one come to our house\n\n396\n00:19:27.800 --> 00:19:29.480\nto do some electrical work.\n\n397\n00:19:29.480 --> 00:19:33.480\nAnd it's just a pleasure because he knew what he was doing.\n\n398\n00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:38.240\nHe did it very quickly and really solved the problem\n\n399\n00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:41.680\nthat I had in my house, but really we also gave him\n\n400\n00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:44.560\nan opportunity to earn a meaningful income.\n\n401\n00:19:44.560 --> 00:19:47.400\n- So for us, it is all about trying to provide more\n\n402\n00:19:47.400 --> 00:19:49.960\nof these types of opportunities for taskers\n\n403\n00:19:49.960 --> 00:19:52.520\nso that they can continue to earn money\n\n404\n00:19:52.520 --> 00:19:54.560\nthat, you know, can help them with their families\n\n405\n00:19:54.560 --> 00:19:57.880\nor their schooling or whatever else it is that they eat.\n\n406\n00:19:57.880 --> 00:19:59.960\n- I love how you had a tasker come to your house\n\n407\n00:19:59.960 --> 00:20:01.400\nand help you out.\n\n408\n00:20:01.400 --> 00:20:04.440\nI mean, you think back, you've been CEO now for six years,\n\n409\n00:20:04.440 --> 00:20:08.240\nyou know, what's the most memorable story you have\n\n410\n00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:10.560\nwhere you personally used a task rabbit\n\n411\n00:20:10.560 --> 00:20:14.040\nto get something done at your house?\n\n412\n00:20:14.040 --> 00:20:15.080\n- I don't know.\n\n413\n00:20:15.080 --> 00:20:18.080\nI have so many taskers come to our house.\n\n414\n00:20:18.080 --> 00:20:19.720\nYou know, as part of working a task rabbit,\n\n415\n00:20:19.720 --> 00:20:21.400\nwe provide a stipend to everyone\n\n416\n00:20:21.400 --> 00:20:24.880\nso that everyone can constantly be trying out the product.\n\n417\n00:20:24.880 --> 00:20:29.600\nSo I had had dozens and dozens of taskers at our house\n\n418\n00:20:29.600 --> 00:20:31.880\ndoing all sorts of jobs.\n\n419\n00:20:31.880 --> 00:20:34.440\nI would say, you know, there was one tasker\n\n420\n00:20:34.440 --> 00:20:39.160\nwho came and did a lot of work, a lot of painting for us.\n\n421\n00:20:39.160 --> 00:20:44.160\nAnd he had a great story because he was,\n\n422\n00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:47.400\nhe had been doing sales and then a pandemic hit\n\n423\n00:20:47.400 --> 00:20:50.240\nand his company shut down and he could no longer do sales\n\n424\n00:20:50.240 --> 00:20:53.280\nand he was trying to find new jobs and sales.\n\n425\n00:20:53.280 --> 00:20:55.280\nBut this was really the height of the pandemic\n\n426\n00:20:55.280 --> 00:21:00.280\nand people were still not hiring before sort of 21 started.\n\n427\n00:21:00.280 --> 00:21:02.920\nAnd so he said, you know, when I was in college,\n\n428\n00:21:02.920 --> 00:21:05.280\nI painted houses and I love doing that.\n\n429\n00:21:05.280 --> 00:21:07.560\nI really found it so satisfying.\n\n430\n00:21:07.560 --> 00:21:10.080\nAnd I thought, well, I can do this in the meantime\n\n431\n00:21:10.080 --> 00:21:12.520\nuntil I find my sales job.\n\n432\n00:21:12.520 --> 00:21:14.600\nAnd, you know, he kept coming back\n\n433\n00:21:14.600 --> 00:21:17.640\nbecause I had just moved in a pandemic as everyone else had.\n\n434\n00:21:17.640 --> 00:21:20.360\nAnd so there was a lot of painting to do.\n\n435\n00:21:20.360 --> 00:21:22.320\nAnd he said, you know, over time I realized\n\n436\n00:21:22.320 --> 00:21:23.880\nthat this is so much more freeing.\n\n437\n00:21:23.880 --> 00:21:24.800\nI love doing this.\n\n438\n00:21:24.800 --> 00:21:26.640\nI love meeting my customers.\n\n439\n00:21:26.640 --> 00:21:28.400\nI love providing a really good service.\n\n440\n00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:30.480\nMaybe at some point I'll go back to sales,\n\n441\n00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:32.440\nbut this is great right now.\n\n442\n00:21:32.440 --> 00:21:35.440\nAnd this was just, it's such a heartwarming story\n\n443\n00:21:35.440 --> 00:21:40.200\nthat we're able to provide some sort of a path\n\n444\n00:21:40.200 --> 00:21:42.880\nfor people who are maybe in between jobs\n\n445\n00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:45.840\nor in between careers or maybe, you know,\n\n446\n00:21:45.840 --> 00:21:49.120\nthey are working at night or going to school at night\n\n447\n00:21:49.120 --> 00:21:52.840\nbut need some more flexibility during the day.\n\n448\n00:21:52.840 --> 00:21:55.280\nAnd so I've met so many taskers like that\n\n449\n00:21:55.280 --> 00:21:57.840\nwho are really trying different ways\n\n450\n00:21:57.840 --> 00:22:01.280\nto add an incremental income.\n\n451\n00:22:01.280 --> 00:22:02.320\n- Hello friends.\n\n452\n00:22:02.320 --> 00:22:03.720\nI hope you're loving this conversation\n\n453\n00:22:03.720 --> 00:22:05.920\nbetween David and Ananya, I certainly am inspired.\n\n454\n00:22:05.920 --> 00:22:08.640\nPerhaps I'll move to Argentina, who knows?\n\n455\n00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:11.680\nI wanna remind you as we do every episode to stay tuned\n\n456\n00:22:11.680 --> 00:22:14.520\nto the very end so that you don't miss the debrief.\n\n457\n00:22:14.520 --> 00:22:16.120\nDavid and I are going to be breaking down\n\n458\n00:22:16.120 --> 00:22:17.960\nsome of the concepts that Anya talks about\n\n459\n00:22:17.960 --> 00:22:20.600\nso that we give you something really tangible to take away\n\n460\n00:22:20.600 --> 00:22:24.320\nand to apply to your own leadership or to your own life.\n\n461\n00:22:24.320 --> 00:22:26.520\nSo stay tuned to the very end of the episode\n\n462\n00:22:26.520 --> 00:22:27.920\nand I will see you soon.\n\n463\n00:22:27.920 --> 00:22:30.600\n- You know, for someone using TaskRabbit\n\n464\n00:22:30.600 --> 00:22:31.880\nfor the first time,\n\n465\n00:22:31.880 --> 00:22:34.640\nthere's gotta be a little skepticism about\n\n466\n00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:36.520\nwhether the person they're hiring\n\n467\n00:22:36.520 --> 00:22:38.360\nis really qualified to do the job.\n\n468\n00:22:38.360 --> 00:22:42.360\nI mean, I even see commercials that kind of make fun of that.\n\n469\n00:22:42.360 --> 00:22:45.760\nYou know, you know, how do you overcome that?\n\n470\n00:22:45.760 --> 00:22:50.600\n- Well, I think that, of course, I'm slightly biased\n\n471\n00:22:50.600 --> 00:22:53.480\nbut of course we have the best taskers on our platform.\n\n472\n00:22:53.480 --> 00:22:58.480\nAnd the way you know that is really by checking their reviews,\n\n473\n00:22:58.480 --> 00:23:01.600\nyou know, the majority of our taskers\n\n474\n00:23:01.600 --> 00:23:04.240\nhave really high ratings and reviews\n\n475\n00:23:04.240 --> 00:23:06.960\nand you can read about the jobs that they have done.\n\n476\n00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:09.000\nYou can read from past clients,\n\n477\n00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:12.240\nyou can see photos of some of the work.\n\n478\n00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:16.480\nAnd you can, through that you can gain a bit of trust\n\n479\n00:23:16.480 --> 00:23:20.560\nand understanding that they have a lot of experience\n\n480\n00:23:20.560 --> 00:23:23.520\nand whatever it is that you're hiring them for\n\n481\n00:23:23.520 --> 00:23:25.400\nand will come in and, you know,\n\n482\n00:23:25.400 --> 00:23:27.400\nhopefully do a really good job for you.\n\n483\n00:23:27.400 --> 00:23:32.400\nI know that I've had the best of luck with our taskers\n\n484\n00:23:32.400 --> 00:23:37.200\nand it's really helped really more than anything our marriage\n\n485\n00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:38.800\nbut it's been really great.\n\n486\n00:23:38.800 --> 00:23:43.440\n- I'll tell you what, I need a tasker to help me.\n\n487\n00:23:43.440 --> 00:23:45.160\nI can tell you that for sure.\n\n488\n00:23:45.160 --> 00:23:48.520\nYou know, consumer businesses experiment constantly.\n\n489\n00:23:48.520 --> 00:23:53.080\nYou know, what's an experiment or a test that you ran\n\n490\n00:23:53.080 --> 00:23:56.360\nthat didn't work and what'd you learn from it?\n\n491\n00:23:56.360 --> 00:24:00.080\n- Well, there are many and honestly,\n\n492\n00:24:00.080 --> 00:24:04.200\nif we're not, if we're running experiments that do not fail\n\n493\n00:24:04.200 --> 00:24:06.640\nthen we're probably not being bold enough.\n\n494\n00:24:06.640 --> 00:24:09.040\nOne of our key core values is to be bold\n\n495\n00:24:09.040 --> 00:24:13.760\nand so we talk a lot about as a company, as a culture,\n\n496\n00:24:13.760 --> 00:24:16.600\nhow important is to be testing and experimenting\n\n497\n00:24:16.600 --> 00:24:18.560\nthings that may fail.\n\n498\n00:24:18.560 --> 00:24:20.800\nSo sometimes you think something will work\n\n499\n00:24:20.800 --> 00:24:22.840\nand then you put it on.\n\n500\n00:24:22.840 --> 00:24:25.200\nAnd even though you may do some user groups\n\n501\n00:24:25.200 --> 00:24:28.320\nand consumers kind of tell you, yeah, this would be great.\n\n502\n00:24:28.320 --> 00:24:30.040\nWhen you actually test it out,\n\n503\n00:24:30.040 --> 00:24:32.840\nit turns out that people actually don't do what they thought\n\n504\n00:24:32.840 --> 00:24:34.560\nthey were gonna do if that was live.\n\n505\n00:24:34.560 --> 00:24:37.240\nSo, you know, as an example,\n\n506\n00:24:37.240 --> 00:24:42.240\nwe are testing different ways that we allow customers\n\n507\n00:24:42.240 --> 00:24:47.880\nto choose or perhaps not choose taskers,\n\n508\n00:24:47.880 --> 00:24:51.520\ndepending on the type of category and the type of program.\n\n509\n00:24:51.520 --> 00:24:56.400\nSo we have found that in some instances,\n\n510\n00:24:56.400 --> 00:24:59.680\ncustomers really do prefer to choose a tasker.\n\n511\n00:24:59.680 --> 00:25:02.840\nThey like seeing a list and they want to read all about them\n\n512\n00:25:02.840 --> 00:25:05.560\nand they wanna see who they're going to choose.\n\n513\n00:25:05.560 --> 00:25:08.480\nBut in other instances, we have found that actually\n\n514\n00:25:08.480 --> 00:25:11.680\nwhen we tell them this is what's gonna cost you\n\n515\n00:25:11.680 --> 00:25:13.080\nand someone's gonna show up at your house\n\n516\n00:25:13.080 --> 00:25:16.320\nand assemble this piece of furniture, they like that too.\n\n517\n00:25:16.320 --> 00:25:19.240\nAnd so understanding in which instance\n\n518\n00:25:19.240 --> 00:25:22.240\nwhich type of paradigm works better\n\n519\n00:25:22.240 --> 00:25:25.560\nhas been very complex.\n\n520\n00:25:25.560 --> 00:25:28.200\nAnd I would venture to say more complex\n\n521\n00:25:28.200 --> 00:25:29.600\nthan we had anticipated.\n\n522\n00:25:29.600 --> 00:25:30.880\nBut I think that that's okay.\n\n523\n00:25:30.880 --> 00:25:33.200\nIt's really great to test with customers\n\n524\n00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:36.720\nand understand that, you know, in some instances,\n\n525\n00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:39.840\nwe did not think through the second or third effects\n\n526\n00:25:39.840 --> 00:25:41.960\nof the changes that we're making.\n\n527\n00:25:41.960 --> 00:25:43.400\n- You know, speaking of complexity,\n\n528\n00:25:43.400 --> 00:25:47.200\nwhen you face a complex decision\n\n529\n00:25:47.200 --> 00:25:52.000\nwithout a lot of data, without necessarily precedent to lean on,\n\n530\n00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:54.880\nwhat's the first question you ask yourself?\n\n531\n00:25:54.880 --> 00:25:56.240\n- Am I doing the right thing?\n\n532\n00:25:56.240 --> 00:25:57.660\nWhat is the right thing to do?\n\n533\n00:25:57.660 --> 00:26:00.400\nAt the end of the day, you can kind of peel it down\n\n534\n00:26:00.400 --> 00:26:04.760\nand often you can go back to what's the right thing to do.\n\n535\n00:26:04.760 --> 00:26:07.840\nI think, you know, as you sort of move further up,\n\n536\n00:26:07.840 --> 00:26:10.300\nthere isn't just necessarily data.\n\n537\n00:26:10.300 --> 00:26:13.640\nIf there is data and it clearly tells you do A not B,\n\n538\n00:26:13.640 --> 00:26:15.680\nof course you're going to do A\n\n539\n00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:17.840\nbecause that's what the data says.\n\n540\n00:26:17.840 --> 00:26:21.440\nData often sort of doesn't tell you the why behind things.\n\n541\n00:26:21.440 --> 00:26:25.600\nAnd then often it just, the data is very unclear.\n\n542\n00:26:25.600 --> 00:26:28.760\nAnd that's when the decisions kind of go up further\n\n543\n00:26:28.760 --> 00:26:30.440\nand you're trying to make a choice\n\n544\n00:26:30.440 --> 00:26:34.400\nwith very limited information or with very limited data.\n\n545\n00:26:34.400 --> 00:26:36.320\nAnd you kind of have to come back and say,\n\n546\n00:26:36.320 --> 00:26:37.960\nokay, well, what's the right thing?\n\n547\n00:26:37.960 --> 00:26:39.000\nAnd what does your gut say?\n\n548\n00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:43.560\nAnd really your gut to me is just the experience\n\n549\n00:26:43.560 --> 00:26:46.040\nof having been in that situation before\n\n550\n00:26:46.040 --> 00:26:48.240\nor making a similar decision before\n\n551\n00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:52.440\nor seeing some similar trends or recognizing a pattern.\n\n552\n00:26:52.440 --> 00:26:54.280\nAnd it doesn't mean that I'm always right.\n\n553\n00:26:54.280 --> 00:26:57.840\nI'm wrong more often than I'd like to admit,\n\n554\n00:26:57.840 --> 00:26:59.960\nbut that's okay.\n\n555\n00:26:59.960 --> 00:27:03.160\nI think making a decision, first and foremost,\n\n556\n00:27:03.160 --> 00:27:06.680\nis more important than just trying to continually\n\n557\n00:27:06.680 --> 00:27:10.240\nto get more data in order to be more certain.\n\n558\n00:27:10.240 --> 00:27:15.240\nMaking a decision, especially if the decision is reversible quicker,\n\n559\n00:27:15.240 --> 00:27:17.840\nI think is more important than waiting for more data\n\n560\n00:27:17.840 --> 00:27:21.080\nthat may or may not provide more certainty.\n\n561\n00:27:21.080 --> 00:27:21.920\n- Now you mentioned earlier\n\n562\n00:27:21.920 --> 00:27:23.960\nthat one of your core values is being bold\n\n563\n00:27:23.960 --> 00:27:26.880\nand you just, I would imagine doing the right thing\n\n564\n00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:28.520\nfor your customers is right up there.\n\n565\n00:27:28.520 --> 00:27:30.840\nMaybe the wording isn't exactly yet.\n\n566\n00:27:30.840 --> 00:27:33.040\nWhat's something that you're trying to build in\n\n567\n00:27:33.040 --> 00:27:36.040\nand the culture that's relatively new,\n\n568\n00:27:36.040 --> 00:27:38.040\nthat you think is gonna be a requirement\n\n569\n00:27:38.040 --> 00:27:42.640\nfor you taking the taskers to a whole different level?\n\n570\n00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:45.000\n- So I think it is about being bold.\n\n571\n00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:47.120\nIt is about feeling safe enough\n\n572\n00:27:47.120 --> 00:27:52.120\nto really try a lot of things that may or may not work\n\n573\n00:27:52.120 --> 00:27:53.720\nand knowing that it's okay\n\n574\n00:27:53.720 --> 00:27:56.040\nbecause that's the only way you can learn\n\n575\n00:27:56.040 --> 00:27:58.360\nand actually try and do better next time.\n\n576\n00:27:58.360 --> 00:28:00.800\nAnd I have a lot of work to do on that as well, right?\n\n577\n00:28:00.800 --> 00:28:02.760\nOften I don't wanna let go of something.\n\n578\n00:28:02.760 --> 00:28:05.760\nWe try something and the experiment didn't do\n\n579\n00:28:05.760 --> 00:28:07.360\nwhat we thought it was gonna do\n\n580\n00:28:07.360 --> 00:28:10.640\nand if I still believe that's the right thing,\n\n581\n00:28:10.640 --> 00:28:12.680\nthen maybe I'll try to influence it and say,\n\n582\n00:28:12.680 --> 00:28:14.760\nwell, what if we tried it this way or that way?\n\n583\n00:28:14.760 --> 00:28:17.480\nAnd that's not really always the best answer.\n\n584\n00:28:17.480 --> 00:28:19.400\nSometimes just letting go and moving on\n\n585\n00:28:19.400 --> 00:28:21.920\nand trying something new is the right answer.\n\n586\n00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:25.280\nAnd so understanding what it means to be bold\n\n587\n00:28:25.280 --> 00:28:29.600\nand how to take risks and how to be okay when they fail,\n\n588\n00:28:29.600 --> 00:28:32.720\nI think it is something that we're really trying\n\n589\n00:28:32.720 --> 00:28:35.560\nto build into the culture\n\n590\n00:28:35.560 --> 00:28:40.200\nbecause this concept of speed is really important\n\n591\n00:28:40.200 --> 00:28:43.920\nas we get bigger and we did over 3 million jobs last year,\n\n592\n00:28:43.920 --> 00:28:45.800\nwhich is a lot of jobs.\n\n593\n00:28:45.800 --> 00:28:49.080\nIt's easy to sort of get a little bit stuck\n\n594\n00:28:49.080 --> 00:28:50.840\nin this analysis for us\n\n595\n00:28:50.840 --> 00:28:53.320\nas opposed to making decisions quicker.\n\n596\n00:28:53.320 --> 00:28:56.840\n- So you're becoming a bigger and bigger company every day.\n\n597\n00:28:56.840 --> 00:28:58.800\nHow do you keep the big company small?\n\n598\n00:28:58.800 --> 00:29:01.560\nI mean, how do you wipe out big companyitis?\n\n599\n00:29:01.560 --> 00:29:03.040\n- I think you take the best from some\n\n600\n00:29:03.040 --> 00:29:08.040\nof the big company stuff and you kind of forget the rest.\n\n601\n00:29:08.040 --> 00:29:12.720\nI think not all big companies are bad companies.\n\n602\n00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:14.440\nThere are many things that are really good,\n\n603\n00:29:14.440 --> 00:29:16.120\nbut we still have to be nimble.\n\n604\n00:29:16.120 --> 00:29:18.120\nThere's always a spectrum.\n\n605\n00:29:18.120 --> 00:29:21.600\nAnd so there are processes and systems and so on\n\n606\n00:29:21.600 --> 00:29:24.680\nand it's very easy to kind of get very sort of\n\n607\n00:29:24.680 --> 00:29:27.720\nsuckered into those as we become bigger.\n\n608\n00:29:27.720 --> 00:29:29.400\nBut I keep reminding the team\n\n609\n00:29:29.400 --> 00:29:31.080\nthat we still have a lot of flexibility.\n\n610\n00:29:31.080 --> 00:29:32.120\nWe can make exceptions.\n\n611\n00:29:32.120 --> 00:29:35.040\nWe don't have to have a process or a rule\n\n612\n00:29:35.040 --> 00:29:38.360\nor something for every single thing we do.\n\n613\n00:29:38.360 --> 00:29:42.800\nWe still need to be very nimble on how we make decisions\n\n614\n00:29:42.800 --> 00:29:45.960\nand how we execute and learn quicker and quicker.\n\n615\n00:29:45.960 --> 00:29:48.080\nAnd I think that's sort of the core thing\n\n616\n00:29:48.080 --> 00:29:51.400\nof trying to figure out how to keep learning\n\n617\n00:29:51.400 --> 00:29:55.000\nat a faster pace than your next competitor.\n\n618\n00:29:55.000 --> 00:29:57.000\n- And one of the things I know every leader now\n\n619\n00:29:57.000 --> 00:29:59.600\nis trying to get up to speed on or lead in.\n\n620\n00:29:59.600 --> 00:30:03.400\nThe area is the sole area of artificial intelligence.\n\n621\n00:30:03.400 --> 00:30:06.960\nYou know, how are you personally using AI\n\n622\n00:30:06.960 --> 00:30:08.240\nto make you a better leader?\n\n623\n00:30:08.240 --> 00:30:09.160\n- Of course.\n\n624\n00:30:09.160 --> 00:30:11.120\nWell, I think like most folks,\n\n625\n00:30:11.120 --> 00:30:14.820\nI am there on chat and then Gemini constantly.\n\n626\n00:30:14.820 --> 00:30:19.560\nNot just, I think I originally started with,\n\n627\n00:30:19.560 --> 00:30:23.160\nyou know, help me rewrite this in a simpler, clearer way.\n\n628\n00:30:23.160 --> 00:30:26.720\nI'm more likely to use it now as a bit of a tool\n\n629\n00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:30.720\nto let me think strategically a little bit more.\n\n630\n00:30:30.720 --> 00:30:33.680\nI also use it to prep for big calls.\n\n631\n00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:36.240\nI use it to prep for these types of interviews.\n\n632\n00:30:36.240 --> 00:30:40.600\nI use it to prep for a lot of bigger events.\n\n633\n00:30:40.600 --> 00:30:42.560\nI can have a conversation and say,\n\n634\n00:30:42.560 --> 00:30:46.840\nhey, I am coming on David's podcast.\n\n635\n00:30:46.840 --> 00:30:49.520\nTell me, what do you think are some of the key themes\n\n636\n00:30:49.520 --> 00:30:52.000\nthat I should be thinking about and so forth?\n\n637\n00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:55.160\nThese are, and I can have a live conversation\n\n638\n00:30:55.160 --> 00:30:57.400\nwhich is really helpful.\n\n639\n00:30:57.400 --> 00:30:59.480\nBut that's my individual productivity,\n\n640\n00:30:59.480 --> 00:31:03.440\nbeing able to build jams and being able to, you know,\n\n641\n00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:07.040\nsimplify the more mundane tasks that we all have to do.\n\n642\n00:31:07.040 --> 00:31:08.920\nBut what I'm really thinking a lot about\n\n643\n00:31:08.920 --> 00:31:11.840\nis not just individual productivity being increased.\n\n644\n00:31:11.840 --> 00:31:14.760\nI'm also thinking about just some functional work\n\n645\n00:31:14.760 --> 00:31:17.520\nthat we can do, of course, CS is a perfect example\n\n646\n00:31:17.520 --> 00:31:18.640\nor customer service.\n\n647\n00:31:18.640 --> 00:31:21.880\nAnd this is where we're seeing a lot of benefits.\n\n648\n00:31:21.880 --> 00:31:23.840\nYou know, engineering, other functionalities\n\n649\n00:31:23.840 --> 00:31:27.400\nhave a lot of things going for them from AI.\n\n650\n00:31:27.400 --> 00:31:30.000\nBut what I'm starting to spend a lot more time\n\n651\n00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:34.960\nand thinking about is how do we use the large language models\n\n652\n00:31:34.960 --> 00:31:37.080\nand really even small language models\n\n653\n00:31:37.080 --> 00:31:39.400\nto help us drive revenue more so,\n\n654\n00:31:39.400 --> 00:31:42.200\nand what that really means is to help the customer\n\n655\n00:31:42.200 --> 00:31:44.000\nhave a better experience.\n\n656\n00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:47.360\nSo to provide, you know, more seamless experience\n\n657\n00:31:47.360 --> 00:31:50.240\nto provide more information that is needed for them\n\n658\n00:31:50.240 --> 00:31:52.520\nso that they're much more likely to find someone\n\n659\n00:31:52.520 --> 00:31:54.040\nwho they need to help them.\n\n660\n00:31:54.040 --> 00:31:56.880\nAnd so that's the more exciting part of AI.\n\n661\n00:31:56.880 --> 00:31:59.240\n- You light up when you start talking about AI.\n\n662\n00:31:59.240 --> 00:32:02.320\nHow do you create that kind of enthusiasm\n\n663\n00:32:02.320 --> 00:32:04.000\nacross the organization?\n\n664\n00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:05.880\n- You know, it's like a change,\n\n665\n00:32:05.880 --> 00:32:07.480\nit's going through a change curve\n\n666\n00:32:07.480 --> 00:32:09.080\nand it's different for everyone.\n\n667\n00:32:09.080 --> 00:32:12.160\nAnd, you know, like coming back to my kids,\n\n668\n00:32:12.160 --> 00:32:15.240\nI have some who are just very eager and curious.\n\n669\n00:32:15.240 --> 00:32:17.400\nSome, I make it sound like I have hundreds of kids.\n\n670\n00:32:17.400 --> 00:32:18.400\nI only have three.\n\n671\n00:32:19.640 --> 00:32:22.480\nYou know, but then I have, you know, one of my children\n\n672\n00:32:22.480 --> 00:32:27.200\nwho like any change seems to cause just a lot of stress.\n\n673\n00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:29.320\nAnd I think, you know, it's similar\n\n674\n00:32:29.320 --> 00:32:31.080\nfor everyone in the organization.\n\n675\n00:32:31.080 --> 00:32:33.560\nSome people are very open and excited\n\n676\n00:32:33.560 --> 00:32:35.520\nand they want to try and they want to learn.\n\n677\n00:32:35.520 --> 00:32:38.440\nAnd they're, you know, every, we have AI power hour,\n\n678\n00:32:38.440 --> 00:32:39.680\nwe have all these tools\n\n679\n00:32:39.680 --> 00:32:42.360\nand we have all of these learning opportunities\n\n680\n00:32:42.360 --> 00:32:44.160\nto learn more.\n\n681\n00:32:44.160 --> 00:32:47.840\nAnd then there are people who are more sort of reserved\n\n682\n00:32:47.840 --> 00:32:50.640\nand it's going to take a little bit of time for them\n\n683\n00:32:50.640 --> 00:32:52.720\nto adapt to these new technologies.\n\n684\n00:32:52.720 --> 00:32:56.840\nAnd that's okay, but we are all heading in that direction.\n\n685\n00:32:56.840 --> 00:32:59.920\nSo it's not as if, you know, at some point we'll say,\n\n686\n00:32:59.920 --> 00:33:01.000\n\"Well, that was kind of fun,\n\n687\n00:33:01.000 --> 00:33:02.840\n\"but we're no longer going to do that.\"\n\n688\n00:33:02.840 --> 00:33:07.840\nIt is about how do we get ourselves thinking in this mindset\n\n689\n00:33:07.840 --> 00:33:13.000\nand how are we more and more likely to start using these tools\n\n690\n00:33:13.000 --> 00:33:15.680\nto become more productive, to work smarter?\n\n691\n00:33:15.680 --> 00:33:18.360\nAnd then again, most importantly,\n\n692\n00:33:18.360 --> 00:33:21.080\nto provide a better experience to our customers.\n\n693\n00:33:21.080 --> 00:33:24.680\n- I've heard you say that TaskRabbit feels like the place\n\n694\n00:33:24.680 --> 00:33:26.720\nyou were meant to be.\n\n695\n00:33:26.720 --> 00:33:28.240\nExplain.\n\n696\n00:33:28.240 --> 00:33:32.120\n- It feels like such a right home for me,\n\n697\n00:33:32.120 --> 00:33:36.240\nsuch a great role because it takes into account\n\n698\n00:33:36.240 --> 00:33:39.560\nsort of everything from the experiences I've had\n\n699\n00:33:39.560 --> 00:33:43.280\non marketplaces, especially working with people, right?\n\n700\n00:33:43.280 --> 00:33:46.040\nWe're connecting a person to a person.\n\n701\n00:33:46.040 --> 00:33:48.560\nBut then I also have some of the retail experience\n\n702\n00:33:48.560 --> 00:33:49.760\nfrom Walmart.\n\n703\n00:33:49.760 --> 00:33:51.680\nAnd then of course we're owned by IKEA,\n\n704\n00:33:51.680 --> 00:33:54.000\nwhich is a company based in Europe.\n\n705\n00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:55.000\nI grew up in Europe.\n\n706\n00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:57.520\nI've also worked and lived in Europe since then\n\n707\n00:33:57.520 --> 00:33:58.960\nin my adulthood.\n\n708\n00:33:58.960 --> 00:34:01.680\nAnd so all of these things mashed up together,\n\n709\n00:34:01.680 --> 00:34:04.240\nI think make this a right role for me.\n\n710\n00:34:04.240 --> 00:34:07.600\nBut I think more than that, if you kind of peel the layers,\n\n711\n00:34:07.600 --> 00:34:12.440\nit is about just having the passion to help people\n\n712\n00:34:12.440 --> 00:34:13.640\nlike our taskers.\n\n713\n00:34:13.640 --> 00:34:16.000\nAnd that's when I come back to my childhood.\n\n714\n00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:20.360\nIt is really exciting to feel like this past year,\n\n715\n00:34:20.360 --> 00:34:24.120\nthere were millions of tasks that we completed\n\n716\n00:34:24.120 --> 00:34:26.800\nby thousands and thousands of taskers\n\n717\n00:34:26.800 --> 00:34:29.440\nwho got to earn this incremental income.\n\n718\n00:34:29.440 --> 00:34:32.160\nAnd that is really motivating to me.\n\n719\n00:34:32.160 --> 00:34:35.600\nAnd, you know, hopefully my team as well,\n\n720\n00:34:35.600 --> 00:34:38.120\nI think it's a great place to be.\n\n721\n00:34:38.120 --> 00:34:40.880\nAnd I feel great every week when we look\n\n722\n00:34:40.880 --> 00:34:43.800\nat our tasker earnings and how much have they earned\n\n723\n00:34:43.800 --> 00:34:46.960\nthis week and is it more or less than the week before?\n\n724\n00:34:46.960 --> 00:34:49.800\nAnd it's exciting to understand that we're making\n\n725\n00:34:49.800 --> 00:34:51.440\na difference in people's lives.\n\n726\n00:34:51.440 --> 00:34:55.360\nOur mission is to transform lives one task at a time.\n\n727\n00:34:55.360 --> 00:34:58.560\nAnd I feel that every day we get to live that mission.\n\n728\n00:34:58.560 --> 00:35:02.680\n- And now, you know, you're an experienced CEO.\n\n729\n00:35:02.680 --> 00:35:04.400\nYou know, when you look back, you know,\n\n730\n00:35:04.400 --> 00:35:09.040\nwhat was the biggest challenge or maybe the most\n\n731\n00:35:09.040 --> 00:35:12.200\ndifficult tasks, no pun intended,\n\n732\n00:35:12.200 --> 00:35:16.600\nthat you had to really step up the learning curve on?\n\n733\n00:35:16.600 --> 00:35:18.640\n- Oh, it's, I'm still learning\n\n734\n00:35:18.640 --> 00:35:20.960\nand there's so much more to learn.\n\n735\n00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:24.880\nI would say that probably one of the biggest things\n\n736\n00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:27.120\nwas making some decisions too slow\n\n737\n00:35:27.120 --> 00:35:29.160\nand then making others too fast\n\n738\n00:35:29.160 --> 00:35:32.000\nand not understanding the difference between the two\n\n739\n00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:35.120\nand why I should slow down on some decisions\n\n740\n00:35:35.120 --> 00:35:37.680\nand actually go faster than others.\n\n741\n00:35:37.680 --> 00:35:41.440\nAnd so definitely that's been a learning.\n\n742\n00:35:41.440 --> 00:35:44.480\nReally, my job as a CEO is to do few things\n\n743\n00:35:44.480 --> 00:35:46.040\nand to do them really well, right?\n\n744\n00:35:46.040 --> 00:35:47.560\nThe first one is to set the vision.\n\n745\n00:35:47.560 --> 00:35:50.120\nLike I really have to have a plan.\n\n746\n00:35:50.120 --> 00:35:52.240\nI would say that in the first few years,\n\n747\n00:35:52.240 --> 00:35:57.240\na plan was very single, which was to do certain work\n\n748\n00:35:57.240 --> 00:36:00.520\nwith, to integrate us more with IKEA\n\n749\n00:36:00.520 --> 00:36:02.800\nbecause it was our partner and our parent.\n\n750\n00:36:02.800 --> 00:36:05.040\nBut I think over the time we've developed\n\n751\n00:36:05.040 --> 00:36:06.600\na much more strategic plan,\n\n752\n00:36:06.600 --> 00:36:08.840\nwhich I'm very, very excited about.\n\n753\n00:36:08.840 --> 00:36:10.920\nThe next thing is really being able to execute\n\n754\n00:36:10.920 --> 00:36:12.480\nand execute really well.\n\n755\n00:36:12.480 --> 00:36:14.960\nAnd so that's all about being,\n\n756\n00:36:14.960 --> 00:36:17.840\nsetting the right culture and really making sure\n\n757\n00:36:17.840 --> 00:36:19.760\nthat we have the right team in place\n\n758\n00:36:19.760 --> 00:36:22.400\nto build on the plan that we have set out.\n\n759\n00:36:22.400 --> 00:36:25.280\nAnd then finally, having to be able to communicate\n\n760\n00:36:25.280 --> 00:36:27.560\nall of that really well to our teams.\n\n761\n00:36:27.560 --> 00:36:29.840\nI think communication is really important\n\n762\n00:36:29.840 --> 00:36:32.120\nand I don't know that we've done very,\n\n763\n00:36:32.120 --> 00:36:35.240\nthat I've done very well on not every time.\n\n764\n00:36:35.240 --> 00:36:38.280\nSo still a lot of learning there as well.\n\n765\n00:36:38.280 --> 00:36:42.420\n- You mentioned the importance of team and people.\n\n766\n00:36:42.420 --> 00:36:47.160\nWhat's the time when you didn't have all the answers\n\n767\n00:36:47.160 --> 00:36:50.800\nand your team taught you what great leadership is all about?\n\n768\n00:36:50.800 --> 00:36:52.480\n- Oh, that's like every day.\n\n769\n00:36:52.480 --> 00:36:54.720\nEvery day I learn from my team.\n\n770\n00:36:54.720 --> 00:36:59.000\nAnd every day, it's not necessarily the same lessons.\n\n771\n00:36:59.000 --> 00:37:01.520\nIt's different people bringing something different\n\n772\n00:37:01.520 --> 00:37:02.880\nto the table, right?\n\n773\n00:37:02.880 --> 00:37:04.080\nI've got someone on my team\n\n774\n00:37:04.080 --> 00:37:05.680\nwho's fantastic, super smart,\n\n775\n00:37:05.680 --> 00:37:08.280\nbut he is a bit of a disruptor, right?\n\n776\n00:37:08.280 --> 00:37:11.720\nSo his ideas are always sort of,\n\n777\n00:37:11.720 --> 00:37:13.520\ncan be a little bit disrupting,\n\n778\n00:37:13.520 --> 00:37:17.760\nbut they make me think more than normally.\n\n779\n00:37:17.760 --> 00:37:21.440\nSo it's great to have that kind of person on your team\n\n780\n00:37:21.440 --> 00:37:23.640\nbecause it just helps you think about problems\n\n781\n00:37:23.640 --> 00:37:24.840\na bit differently.\n\n782\n00:37:24.840 --> 00:37:26.360\nYou know, I've got people on my team\n\n783\n00:37:26.360 --> 00:37:29.520\nwho are very strong and able to give me feedback,\n\n784\n00:37:29.520 --> 00:37:32.160\nwhich is really, really needed.\n\n785\n00:37:32.160 --> 00:37:35.920\nIt's a gift and it's great that so many of them\n\n786\n00:37:35.920 --> 00:37:38.800\nchoose to sort of pull me aside afterwards and say,\n\n787\n00:37:38.800 --> 00:37:42.960\nhmm, maybe you can do that better next time.\n\n788\n00:37:42.960 --> 00:37:45.840\nAnd that's okay because that is really\n\n789\n00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:47.360\nthe only way I'm going to learn.\n\n790\n00:37:47.360 --> 00:37:49.600\nAnd so there are many lessons\n\n791\n00:37:49.600 --> 00:37:51.360\nfrom my teammates every day.\n\n792\n00:37:51.360 --> 00:37:53.520\nAnd I really cherish that.\n\n793\n00:37:53.520 --> 00:37:56.160\n- You know, has there been something that you've learned\n\n794\n00:37:56.160 --> 00:38:00.240\nabout human motivation that a lot of leaders\n\n795\n00:38:00.240 --> 00:38:02.200\nconsistently get wrong?\n\n796\n00:38:02.200 --> 00:38:04.840\n- I'm not sure that a lot of leaders get wrong,\n\n797\n00:38:04.840 --> 00:38:07.520\nbut I think it is really important to understand\n\n798\n00:38:07.520 --> 00:38:10.600\nthat everyone on your team is likely motivated\n\n799\n00:38:10.600 --> 00:38:11.920\nby very different things.\n\n800\n00:38:11.920 --> 00:38:15.240\nAnd to understand what it is that motivates them\n\n801\n00:38:15.240 --> 00:38:18.880\nthen helps you, I think, be a better leader to them\n\n802\n00:38:18.880 --> 00:38:22.800\nbecause for me, you know, the best reward\n\n803\n00:38:22.800 --> 00:38:26.320\nis really seeing people on my team grow and develop.\n\n804\n00:38:26.320 --> 00:38:30.560\nAnd it is really the best part of my job.\n\n805\n00:38:30.560 --> 00:38:32.840\nBut in order to do that, I have to understand\n\n806\n00:38:32.840 --> 00:38:33.760\nwhat motivates people.\n\n807\n00:38:33.760 --> 00:38:35.880\nAnd some people get motivated by titles,\n\n808\n00:38:35.880 --> 00:38:38.080\nsome people buy money, some people buy the scope\n\n809\n00:38:38.080 --> 00:38:41.000\nof their work, some people buy the flexibility\n\n810\n00:38:41.000 --> 00:38:43.680\nof their job or, you know, there's so many things\n\n811\n00:38:43.680 --> 00:38:47.080\nthat motivate people and understanding what it is\n\n812\n00:38:47.080 --> 00:38:50.720\nand what makes them tech and being able to provide them\n\n813\n00:38:50.720 --> 00:38:54.520\nwith the opportunities that allow them to shine best\n\n814\n00:38:54.520 --> 00:38:58.360\nand in the things that motivate them to do their best work.\n\n815\n00:38:58.360 --> 00:39:00.080\nIt's really hard, but it's by far\n\n816\n00:39:00.080 --> 00:39:02.280\nthe most rewarding part of my job.\n\n817\n00:39:02.280 --> 00:39:04.080\n- You know, looking back, what do you think\n\n818\n00:39:04.080 --> 00:39:07.000\nis the most meaningful recognition you personally\n\n819\n00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:10.040\never received and what did it teach you\n\n820\n00:39:10.040 --> 00:39:12.680\nabout how people want to be seen?\n\n821\n00:39:12.680 --> 00:39:15.320\n- You know, it was early on in my career\n\n822\n00:39:15.320 --> 00:39:17.560\nand we were in a big meeting and I was by far\n\n823\n00:39:17.560 --> 00:39:19.960\nthe most junior person that I'm meeting,\n\n824\n00:39:19.960 --> 00:39:22.880\nlike by leaps and bounds.\n\n825\n00:39:22.880 --> 00:39:26.680\nAnd, you know, it was some big meeting talking about,\n\n826\n00:39:26.680 --> 00:39:29.280\nI don't even remember what it was.\n\n827\n00:39:29.280 --> 00:39:32.680\nBut at one point, the most senior person in the room\n\n828\n00:39:32.680 --> 00:39:35.520\nwho was a CEO at the time looked at me and said,\n\n829\n00:39:35.520 --> 00:39:37.560\nAnya, what do you think?\n\n830\n00:39:37.560 --> 00:39:41.400\nAnd I was kind of shocked that he would even care.\n\n831\n00:39:41.400 --> 00:39:43.320\nI didn't even know he knew I was there\n\n832\n00:39:43.320 --> 00:39:44.800\nand let alone that he knew my name,\n\n833\n00:39:44.800 --> 00:39:48.200\nlet alone that he asked me what it is that I thought.\n\n834\n00:39:48.200 --> 00:39:51.360\nAnd I felt very heard at that moment\n\n835\n00:39:51.360 --> 00:39:55.120\nand it's a great lesson that I, you know,\n\n836\n00:39:55.120 --> 00:39:57.840\nI need to keep repeating to myself\n\n837\n00:39:57.840 --> 00:40:00.080\nbecause I think at the end of the day,\n\n838\n00:40:00.080 --> 00:40:03.400\neveryone wants to be long and they want to feel heard,\n\n839\n00:40:03.400 --> 00:40:06.960\nthey want to feel like their contributions matter.\n\n840\n00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:09.520\nAnd I think showing that to people\n\n841\n00:40:09.520 --> 00:40:12.280\nby being this leader who can listen\n\n842\n00:40:12.280 --> 00:40:15.880\nand allow people to be their best selves\n\n843\n00:40:15.880 --> 00:40:17.840\nis the hardest part.\n\n844\n00:40:17.840 --> 00:40:21.880\nAnd so that was a great lesson, very early on in my career.\n\n845\n00:40:21.880 --> 00:40:23.640\n- And a great story, I love that story.\n\n846\n00:40:23.640 --> 00:40:26.160\nYou know, what's the most powerful recognition\n\n847\n00:40:26.160 --> 00:40:28.640\nthat you've ever given to someone else?\n\n848\n00:40:28.640 --> 00:40:33.520\n- You know, we were working on a project at Airbnb\n\n849\n00:40:33.520 --> 00:40:36.200\nand it wasn't going very well,\n\n850\n00:40:36.200 --> 00:40:38.520\nbut we had a great breakthrough\n\n851\n00:40:38.520 --> 00:40:41.640\nbecause this person decided to be very creative\n\n852\n00:40:41.640 --> 00:40:43.320\nand could have actually gotten in trouble\n\n853\n00:40:43.320 --> 00:40:44.800\nfor their creativity.\n\n854\n00:40:44.800 --> 00:40:46.040\nBut I pulled them aside and said,\n\n855\n00:40:46.040 --> 00:40:48.080\n\"Well, I love that you thought about this\n\n856\n00:40:48.080 --> 00:40:50.280\nso differently than the rest of us.\"\n\n857\n00:40:50.280 --> 00:40:51.760\nAnd who cares, you know what?\n\n858\n00:40:51.760 --> 00:40:55.200\nWe'll just do this and then we'll ask for forgiveness later.\n\n859\n00:40:55.200 --> 00:40:56.880\nAnd I love that you did this.\n\n860\n00:40:56.880 --> 00:40:59.200\nAnd this person was quite junior\n\n861\n00:40:59.200 --> 00:41:01.040\nand he got so excited.\n\n862\n00:41:01.040 --> 00:41:03.000\nLike I could see it in his eyes\n\n863\n00:41:03.000 --> 00:41:04.800\nbecause I think he was a little bit worried\n\n864\n00:41:04.800 --> 00:41:07.160\nbecause it was kind of going out on a limb.\n\n865\n00:41:07.160 --> 00:41:08.600\nAnd I knew, you know,\n\n866\n00:41:08.600 --> 00:41:12.360\nthat this had like given him the momentum to keep going.\n\n867\n00:41:12.360 --> 00:41:16.440\nAnd so it's really, again, the most rewarding part of my job.\n\n868\n00:41:16.440 --> 00:41:17.920\n- Awesome, that's great.\n\n869\n00:41:17.920 --> 00:41:18.920\nThis has been so much fun\n\n870\n00:41:18.920 --> 00:41:20.040\nand I want to have some more\n\n871\n00:41:20.040 --> 00:41:21.800\nwith my lightning round of questions.\n\n872\n00:41:21.800 --> 00:41:23.520\nSo are you ready for this?\n\n873\n00:41:23.520 --> 00:41:24.760\n- I am.\n\n874\n00:41:24.760 --> 00:41:27.480\n- The three words that best describe you.\n\n875\n00:41:27.480 --> 00:41:31.040\n- Lively, curious and ambitious.\n\n876\n00:41:31.040 --> 00:41:34.280\n- If you could be one person for a day besides yourself,\n\n877\n00:41:34.280 --> 00:41:35.720\nwho would it be?\n\n878\n00:41:35.720 --> 00:41:39.960\n- I would love to be like a dancer/performer\n\n879\n00:41:39.960 --> 00:41:42.120\non stage somewhere.\n\n880\n00:41:42.120 --> 00:41:43.920\nYour biggest pet peeve.\n\n881\n00:41:43.920 --> 00:41:46.400\n- When someone on my team comes to complain to me\n\n882\n00:41:46.400 --> 00:41:48.640\nabout someone else on our team\n\n883\n00:41:48.640 --> 00:41:51.200\nand then I ask, \"Have you spoken to that person?\"\n\n884\n00:41:51.200 --> 00:41:53.320\nAnd they hadn't yet.\n\n885\n00:41:53.320 --> 00:41:54.720\nI don't like that.\n\n886\n00:41:54.720 --> 00:41:55.840\n- Me either.\n\n887\n00:41:55.840 --> 00:41:58.000\nWhat's something you'd only know about Poland\n\n888\n00:41:58.000 --> 00:41:59.240\nif you're from there?\n\n889\n00:41:59.240 --> 00:42:01.840\n- You know, on Monday after Christmas,\n\n890\n00:42:01.840 --> 00:42:03.320\noh, after Easter,\n\n891\n00:42:03.320 --> 00:42:05.920\nit's this day called Schmingus Dingus,\n\n892\n00:42:05.920 --> 00:42:09.440\nwhich is essentially like it comes from this tradition.\n\n893\n00:42:09.440 --> 00:42:11.680\nI think the baptism are on Easter.\n\n894\n00:42:11.680 --> 00:42:14.640\nBut what you do is you dump water on people\n\n895\n00:42:14.640 --> 00:42:16.640\nand like buckets of water.\n\n896\n00:42:16.640 --> 00:42:19.400\nAnd so kids play with like toys and water,\n\n897\n00:42:19.400 --> 00:42:20.720\nbut as you get older,\n\n898\n00:42:20.720 --> 00:42:23.320\nyou do buckets of water and people get soaked.\n\n899\n00:42:23.320 --> 00:42:24.880\nAnd it's a very fun tradition.\n\n900\n00:42:24.880 --> 00:42:26.800\nIt's usually still cold in April,\n\n901\n00:42:26.800 --> 00:42:28.480\nbut it's a fun day.\n\n902\n00:42:28.480 --> 00:42:29.840\nIt's a celebration.\n\n903\n00:42:29.840 --> 00:42:32.440\n- You've lived in South Dakota, Poland, Arizona,\n\n904\n00:42:32.440 --> 00:42:35.040\nChina, London, San Francisco.\n\n905\n00:42:35.040 --> 00:42:39.120\nWhat place taught you shape your leadership the most?\n\n906\n00:42:39.120 --> 00:42:42.160\n- You know, I lived in Kenya for a little bit of time\n\n907\n00:42:42.160 --> 00:42:46.400\nand I ran a cashew processing plant.\n\n908\n00:42:46.400 --> 00:42:51.400\nAnd I spent a lot of time teaching people there\n\n909\n00:42:51.400 --> 00:42:53.480\nhow to use Excel.\n\n910\n00:42:53.480 --> 00:42:58.480\nAnd I think one of the things about leadership\n\n911\n00:42:58.480 --> 00:43:01.680\nthat is really important is having the patience\n\n912\n00:43:01.680 --> 00:43:05.080\nand the grace to be able to really listen to people.\n\n913\n00:43:05.080 --> 00:43:10.080\nAnd I think just, there was just such a big gap of learning\n\n914\n00:43:10.080 --> 00:43:13.320\nand yet having the patience to do that.\n\n915\n00:43:13.320 --> 00:43:15.280\nI think it was really important\n\n916\n00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:18.800\nand it definitely taught me huge lessons.\n\n917\n00:43:18.800 --> 00:43:20.440\n- What's the most creative,\n\n918\n00:43:20.440 --> 00:43:23.480\ncast-private job you've ever seen someone post?\n\n919\n00:43:23.480 --> 00:43:25.640\n- I don't know, but the very fun jobs\n\n920\n00:43:25.640 --> 00:43:27.800\nare always waiting in line.\n\n921\n00:43:27.800 --> 00:43:30.440\nSo for crazy things, like just,\n\n922\n00:43:30.440 --> 00:43:31.960\nI just read it in New York Times,\n\n923\n00:43:31.960 --> 00:43:35.720\nhow there's sample sales and these people line up\n\n924\n00:43:35.720 --> 00:43:39.880\nall night in tents and wait for to go have a chance\n\n925\n00:43:39.880 --> 00:43:41.240\nto buy a sweater or a dress.\n\n926\n00:43:41.240 --> 00:43:44.160\nAnd a lot of taskers get hired for this\n\n927\n00:43:44.160 --> 00:43:46.760\nin order to wait in line for hours and hours and hours\n\n928\n00:43:46.760 --> 00:43:47.920\non end.\n\n929\n00:43:47.920 --> 00:43:49.560\n- I love it.\n\n930\n00:43:49.560 --> 00:43:51.600\nWhat's something you've been curious about lately\n\n931\n00:43:51.600 --> 00:43:54.320\nthat has absolutely nothing to do with work?\n\n932\n00:43:54.320 --> 00:43:58.760\n- I spend a lot of time thinking about affordable housing\n\n933\n00:43:58.760 --> 00:44:03.080\nand the NIMBY and the NIMBY movement\n\n934\n00:44:03.080 --> 00:44:07.720\nand what we're seeing in our governments and really,\n\n935\n00:44:07.720 --> 00:44:10.960\nespecially a lot of it has to do with local governments\n\n936\n00:44:10.960 --> 00:44:13.800\nand we're seeing a lot of change\n\n937\n00:44:13.800 --> 00:44:16.800\nand mayors across the country.\n\n938\n00:44:16.800 --> 00:44:21.800\nAnd I think a lot about this concept of abundance\n\n939\n00:44:21.800 --> 00:44:24.920\nby Ezra Klein in his book.\n\n940\n00:44:24.920 --> 00:44:28.480\nAnd there's a lot of work that we need to do.\n\n941\n00:44:28.480 --> 00:44:32.240\nAs a country in order to, I think make more chairs\n\n942\n00:44:32.240 --> 00:44:34.560\nbecause we kind of have this musical chairs game\n\n943\n00:44:34.560 --> 00:44:36.400\nand there's just not enough chairs at the end\n\n944\n00:44:36.400 --> 00:44:38.480\nfor everyone to have a place to live.\n\n945\n00:44:38.480 --> 00:44:40.720\n- What's the one thing you do just for you?\n\n946\n00:44:40.720 --> 00:44:45.920\n- I read a lot of news every morning.\n\n947\n00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:49.880\nAnd then I follow certain writers and really enjoy\n\n948\n00:44:49.880 --> 00:44:53.840\nreading some of the long form pieces that they put out.\n\n949\n00:44:53.840 --> 00:44:57.320\nAnd it's one of my favorite pastimes.\n\n950\n00:44:57.320 --> 00:45:00.080\nIf I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear?\n\n951\n00:45:00.080 --> 00:45:00.920\n- NPR.\n\n952\n00:45:00.920 --> 00:45:03.960\n- What's something about you that few people would know?\n\n953\n00:45:03.960 --> 00:45:07.320\n- That I know very little about pop culture.\n\n954\n00:45:07.320 --> 00:45:08.960\n- What's one of your daily rituals,\n\n955\n00:45:08.960 --> 00:45:11.880\nsomething that you never miss?\n\n956\n00:45:11.880 --> 00:45:14.880\n- I think working out, I generally try to get\n\n957\n00:45:14.880 --> 00:45:17.480\na little bit of a workout in almost daily\n\n958\n00:45:17.480 --> 00:45:18.880\nas I'm getting very old.\n\n959\n00:45:18.880 --> 00:45:21.880\nIt feels like it's something very necessary.\n\n960\n00:45:21.880 --> 00:45:25.000\n- All right, we're out of the light and you're having a great job.\n\n961\n00:45:25.000 --> 00:45:27.720\n- I got a few more questions and I'll let you go here.\n\n962\n00:45:27.720 --> 00:45:29.720\nYou know, I understand you and your husband\n\n963\n00:45:29.720 --> 00:45:32.840\nhave a point system used to balance your career\n\n964\n00:45:32.840 --> 00:45:34.960\nand home life.\n\n965\n00:45:34.960 --> 00:45:36.200\nTell us about it.\n\n966\n00:45:36.200 --> 00:45:37.040\n- We do.\n\n967\n00:45:37.040 --> 00:45:39.840\nAnd it was just kind of serendipitous how it came about.\n\n968\n00:45:39.840 --> 00:45:43.600\nBut then again, when you are talking to an ex-consultant\n\n969\n00:45:43.600 --> 00:45:45.880\nand an ex-banker, maybe this is what happens.\n\n970\n00:45:45.880 --> 00:45:48.280\nBut when our first child was born,\n\n971\n00:45:48.280 --> 00:45:50.720\nwe, you know, I took a bunch of time off.\n\n972\n00:45:50.720 --> 00:45:52.760\nMy husband did just a little bit of time.\n\n973\n00:45:52.760 --> 00:45:56.880\nAnd then we kind of started talking about how,\n\n974\n00:45:56.880 --> 00:45:59.720\nwhether or not we can continue to afford to live in London\n\n975\n00:45:59.720 --> 00:46:01.160\nbecause it was so expensive.\n\n976\n00:46:01.160 --> 00:46:03.680\nAnd we decided that the only way we can do that is\n\n977\n00:46:03.680 --> 00:46:06.680\nif one of us goes back to these professional services,\n\n978\n00:46:06.680 --> 00:46:07.920\nconsulting or banking.\n\n979\n00:46:07.920 --> 00:46:09.720\nAnd then we kind of looked at each other\n\n980\n00:46:09.720 --> 00:46:12.320\nand decided that neither one of us wanted to do that.\n\n981\n00:46:12.320 --> 00:46:15.800\nAnd then we started talking about why that is.\n\n982\n00:46:15.800 --> 00:46:18.960\nAnd then we decided that really generally,\n\n983\n00:46:18.960 --> 00:46:21.040\nwhat does that mean for our family\n\n984\n00:46:21.040 --> 00:46:23.280\nand how much time we spent with our family.\n\n985\n00:46:23.280 --> 00:46:27.640\nAnd so we rated every job to be either one, two or three,\n\n986\n00:46:27.640 --> 00:46:30.560\nmeaning a one, you're kind of barely working\n\n987\n00:46:30.560 --> 00:46:32.520\nor maybe part-time working.\n\n988\n00:46:32.520 --> 00:46:34.560\nA two is quote unquote normal job.\n\n989\n00:46:34.560 --> 00:46:36.480\nYou're working nine to five, some travel.\n\n990\n00:46:36.480 --> 00:46:38.120\nSometimes you have a big project,\n\n991\n00:46:38.120 --> 00:46:39.680\nbut generally you're home at five\n\n992\n00:46:39.680 --> 00:46:42.120\nand you can fix it and offer your kids.\n\n993\n00:46:42.120 --> 00:46:44.920\nAnd then a three is sort of a crazy job\n\n994\n00:46:44.920 --> 00:46:46.400\nwhere you're on a road all the time\n\n995\n00:46:46.400 --> 00:46:51.240\nor you're working 60, 70, 80 hour weeks and so forth.\n\n996\n00:46:51.240 --> 00:46:53.440\nAnd we decided that between the two of us,\n\n997\n00:46:53.440 --> 00:46:56.320\nwe really should never go up a four and a half.\n\n998\n00:46:56.320 --> 00:47:00.680\nMaybe sometimes temporarily hit a five\n\n999\n00:47:00.680 --> 00:47:03.120\nbut it shouldn't be a permanent state.\n\n1000\n00:47:03.120 --> 00:47:04.920\nAnd if we are getting close to five,\n\n1001\n00:47:04.920 --> 00:47:07.760\nthen one of us probably needs to make a change.\n\n1002\n00:47:07.760 --> 00:47:10.120\nAnd so we've tried to live by that.\n\n1003\n00:47:10.120 --> 00:47:13.440\nAnd it's definitely been a way for us to think about\n\n1004\n00:47:13.440 --> 00:47:17.360\nwhen there was a lot of work that comes\n\n1005\n00:47:17.360 --> 00:47:20.360\nwith raising a family and a lot of fun times\n\n1006\n00:47:20.360 --> 00:47:21.480\nthat we don't want to miss.\n\n1007\n00:47:21.480 --> 00:47:26.440\nAnd so in order to do that, we kind of have this framework.\n\n1008\n00:47:26.440 --> 00:47:27.440\n- You walk the talk.\n\n1009\n00:47:27.440 --> 00:47:31.640\nI mean, not many people take that gap year and you took it.\n\n1010\n00:47:31.640 --> 00:47:33.240\nThat's a great example.\n\n1011\n00:47:33.240 --> 00:47:34.560\nLast question here.\n\n1012\n00:47:34.560 --> 00:47:36.200\nWhat's one piece of advice you'd give\n\n1013\n00:47:36.200 --> 00:47:38.480\nto anyone who wants to be a better leader?\n\n1014\n00:47:38.480 --> 00:47:40.640\n- Be curious and learn to listen.\n\n1015\n00:47:40.640 --> 00:47:43.440\n- Anya, thanks so much for being on the show. I appreciate it.\n\n1016\n00:47:43.440 --> 00:47:45.640\n- Thank you for having me. It's been great.\n\n1017\n00:47:45.640 --> 00:47:52.640\n- David, what an inspiring conversation.\n\n1018\n00:47:52.640 --> 00:47:54.320\nI also would like to be friends with,\n\n1019\n00:47:54.320 --> 00:47:55.920\nI want to be friends with everyone we interview,\n\n1020\n00:47:55.920 --> 00:47:59.320\nbut she is a lady who just has such an interesting story.\n\n1021\n00:47:59.320 --> 00:48:01.920\nI can't believe that she moved to the US when she was 12.\n\n1022\n00:48:01.920 --> 00:48:03.800\nShe's now worked at Walmart, Airbnb,\n\n1023\n00:48:03.800 --> 00:48:05.640\nand she's a CEO of TaskRabbit.\n\n1024\n00:48:05.640 --> 00:48:07.440\nHer story is just fascinating.\n\n1025\n00:48:07.440 --> 00:48:10.160\n- Yeah, she came here as an immigrant from Poland,\n\n1026\n00:48:10.160 --> 00:48:12.960\nmoves to South Dakota when she's 12,\n\n1027\n00:48:12.960 --> 00:48:14.760\ndoesn't have the language,\n\n1028\n00:48:14.760 --> 00:48:17.280\nshe knows nothing about the United States of America,\n\n1029\n00:48:17.280 --> 00:48:18.960\nand started to adapt.\n\n1030\n00:48:18.960 --> 00:48:23.960\nAnd I think this is a great example of how we all as people\n\n1031\n00:48:23.960 --> 00:48:28.720\nand leaders can learn from going into new environments.\n\n1032\n00:48:28.720 --> 00:48:31.080\nI related to her very much,\n\n1033\n00:48:31.080 --> 00:48:35.720\nnot because I couldn't speak English here in the United States,\n\n1034\n00:48:35.720 --> 00:48:38.160\nbut I relate to it because I lived in many different places\n\n1035\n00:48:38.160 --> 00:48:39.000\nwhen I grew up.\n\n1036\n00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:41.720\nI lived in 23 states by the time I was in seventh grade.\n\n1037\n00:48:41.720 --> 00:48:45.160\nAnd when you have to go into new situations,\n\n1038\n00:48:45.160 --> 00:48:47.760\nyou learn how to work through anxiety that we all have.\n\n1039\n00:48:47.760 --> 00:48:52.760\nSo we all go into rooms that we don't know everybody,\n\n1040\n00:48:52.760 --> 00:48:56.200\nwe go into situations where we don't necessarily have the answer,\n\n1041\n00:48:56.200 --> 00:48:58.120\nall these things create anxiety.\n\n1042\n00:48:58.120 --> 00:49:00.880\nAnd when you put yourself in new environments\n\n1043\n00:49:00.880 --> 00:49:04.600\nand force yourself to do new and different things\n\n1044\n00:49:04.600 --> 00:49:06.200\nand meet new and different people,\n\n1045\n00:49:06.200 --> 00:49:09.720\nyou just up in your game as a leader and a person.\n\n1046\n00:49:09.720 --> 00:49:13.440\nAnd obviously she learned a lot by doing that.\n\n1047\n00:49:13.440 --> 00:49:17.120\nAnd it's great to see a great leader\n\n1048\n00:49:17.120 --> 00:49:20.440\nand especially a female leader rise the ranks\n\n1049\n00:49:20.440 --> 00:49:23.480\ncoming in in a manner that she did.\n\n1050\n00:49:23.480 --> 00:49:25.520\nI was very impressed with that.\n\n1051\n00:49:25.520 --> 00:49:27.840\n- I love that as a key takeaway from that conversation,\n\n1052\n00:49:27.840 --> 00:49:29.320\nput yourself in new environments\n\n1053\n00:49:29.320 --> 00:49:31.720\nbecause you learn a lot about what you're capable of.\n\n1054\n00:49:31.720 --> 00:49:33.800\nAnd it also forces you to dig deep\n\n1055\n00:49:33.800 --> 00:49:36.520\nand really understand who you are and what you stand for.\n\n1056\n00:49:36.520 --> 00:49:38.280\nBecause if you walk into a new environment\n\n1057\n00:49:38.280 --> 00:49:39.560\nand don't know anybody\n\n1058\n00:49:39.560 --> 00:49:41.600\nand perhaps you don't even know the language,\n\n1059\n00:49:41.600 --> 00:49:43.800\nyou really do have to fall back on who you are\n\n1060\n00:49:43.800 --> 00:49:45.080\nand what you know that you're good at.\n\n1061\n00:49:45.080 --> 00:49:47.280\nSo I love that as a key takeaway.\n\n1062\n00:49:47.280 --> 00:49:49.120\nPut yourself in new environments\n\n1063\n00:49:49.120 --> 00:49:52.320\nand learn more about yourself and how you wanna show up.\n\n1064\n00:49:52.320 --> 00:49:54.480\n- Yeah, and speaking of self development,\n\n1065\n00:49:54.480 --> 00:49:57.080\nyou really gotta know yourself to grow yourself.\n\n1066\n00:49:57.080 --> 00:50:00.560\nAnd I think that's another major key takeaway\n\n1067\n00:50:00.560 --> 00:50:03.360\nfrom our discussion with Anya is that\n\n1068\n00:50:03.360 --> 00:50:06.640\nshe actually took a gap year\n\n1069\n00:50:06.640 --> 00:50:10.080\nwhen I think she was running operations at Airbnb.\n\n1070\n00:50:10.080 --> 00:50:12.960\nI mean, she was a very, very top leader.\n\n1071\n00:50:12.960 --> 00:50:14.440\nI'm sure she was in a position\n\n1072\n00:50:14.440 --> 00:50:18.200\nwhere she could potentially become the CEO there.\n\n1073\n00:50:18.200 --> 00:50:20.640\nBut she knew somehow in her DNA\n\n1074\n00:50:20.640 --> 00:50:22.880\nthat it was time for her to step back\n\n1075\n00:50:22.880 --> 00:50:25.520\nand take some time with her family.\n\n1076\n00:50:25.520 --> 00:50:28.760\nAnd they went to Argentina.\n\n1077\n00:50:28.760 --> 00:50:31.280\nShe took her three kids with her.\n\n1078\n00:50:31.280 --> 00:50:34.360\nShe learned how her three kids are so different,\n\n1079\n00:50:34.360 --> 00:50:37.680\nneed to be motivated in different ways.\n\n1080\n00:50:37.680 --> 00:50:38.560\nBut most importantly,\n\n1081\n00:50:38.560 --> 00:50:40.600\nshe got to spend time with her family\n\n1082\n00:50:40.600 --> 00:50:44.040\nand get, I'm sure her work life balance back in order.\n\n1083\n00:50:44.040 --> 00:50:49.080\nAnd it's something that she talks about with such pride\n\n1084\n00:50:49.080 --> 00:50:52.280\nbecause she grew herself by doing it.\n\n1085\n00:50:52.280 --> 00:50:54.360\nI'm sure she had time to self-reflect\n\n1086\n00:50:54.360 --> 00:50:55.960\nand figure out what she wanted to do,\n\n1087\n00:50:55.960 --> 00:50:58.000\nhow she could raise her game.\n\n1088\n00:50:58.000 --> 00:51:02.840\nAnd I think that's just incredibly powerful\n\n1089\n00:51:02.840 --> 00:51:05.600\nand it's self-motivated.\n\n1090\n00:51:05.600 --> 00:51:07.880\nSo she was very much into her self-development.\n\n1091\n00:51:07.880 --> 00:51:11.800\nShe wasn't backing off when she went on that gap year.\n\n1092\n00:51:11.800 --> 00:51:12.760\nShe was digging in.\n\n1093\n00:51:12.760 --> 00:51:14.240\nShe was digging in to herself\n\n1094\n00:51:14.240 --> 00:51:15.680\nand figuring out how she could really,\n\n1095\n00:51:15.680 --> 00:51:17.400\nreally take it to the next level.\n\n1096\n00:51:17.400 --> 00:51:20.320\nAnd she did it and got closer and closer to her family,\n\n1097\n00:51:20.320 --> 00:51:24.320\nwhich she's treasures and just really exciting to see.\n\n1098\n00:51:24.320 --> 00:51:25.920\n- She talks about how she and her husband\n\n1099\n00:51:25.920 --> 00:51:27.840\nhad to save money before they went\n\n1100\n00:51:27.840 --> 00:51:30.720\nbecause they had the intention to go to Argentina\n\n1101\n00:51:30.720 --> 00:51:31.720\nand not work.\n\n1102\n00:51:31.720 --> 00:51:33.440\nAnd you ask her in the episode,\n\n1103\n00:51:33.440 --> 00:51:36.360\nyou say, that's a pretty significant gap in your resume.\n\n1104\n00:51:36.360 --> 00:51:37.760\nWhat do you think about that?\n\n1105\n00:51:37.760 --> 00:51:39.640\nAnd I'm curious, David,\n\n1106\n00:51:39.640 --> 00:51:40.640\nwhere you sit today,\n\n1107\n00:51:40.640 --> 00:51:43.640\nif you were reviewing a resume for, let's say a CEO job\n\n1108\n00:51:43.640 --> 00:51:46.120\nand you saw that there was a one-year gap\n\n1109\n00:51:46.120 --> 00:51:48.160\nwhere this person went to Argentina\n\n1110\n00:51:48.160 --> 00:51:49.480\nor another country with their family,\n\n1111\n00:51:49.480 --> 00:51:52.080\nhow would you evaluate that\n\n1112\n00:51:52.080 --> 00:51:55.160\nas you are evaluating a potential new candidate?\n\n1113\n00:51:55.160 --> 00:51:58.040\n- Yeah, well, it wouldn't matter if they're a CEO\n\n1114\n00:51:58.040 --> 00:52:01.320\nor someone interviewing for a product manager job.\n\n1115\n00:52:01.320 --> 00:52:04.080\nI would stand out to me and I'd ask them,\n\n1116\n00:52:04.080 --> 00:52:05.960\n\"Yeah, tell me about that gap year.\n\n1117\n00:52:05.960 --> 00:52:06.840\nWhy'd you take it?\n\n1118\n00:52:06.840 --> 00:52:07.840\nWhat'd you learn?\n\n1119\n00:52:07.840 --> 00:52:10.400\nWould you do it over again?\n\n1120\n00:52:10.400 --> 00:52:14.640\nWhat'd you learn about the place that you went to?\n\n1121\n00:52:14.640 --> 00:52:16.800\nIs there anything you'd do over?\"\n\n1122\n00:52:16.800 --> 00:52:19.640\nYou know, I think I would have really had a lot of fun\n\n1123\n00:52:19.640 --> 00:52:20.840\ndigging into that question.\n\n1124\n00:52:20.840 --> 00:52:22.200\nI'd learn a lot about the person,\n\n1125\n00:52:22.200 --> 00:52:24.560\nthe way how they answered those questions.\n\n1126\n00:52:24.560 --> 00:52:25.800\n- Well, great news, David.\n\n1127\n00:52:25.800 --> 00:52:28.040\nI'm going to Argentina for a year.\n\n1128\n00:52:28.040 --> 00:52:29.080\nI'm just kidding.\n\n1129\n00:52:29.080 --> 00:52:30.600\n(laughing)\n\n1130\n00:52:30.600 --> 00:52:32.000\n- You can't go, go look.\n\n1131\n00:52:32.000 --> 00:52:34.560\n- Cool, you're irreplaceable, you know?\n\n1132\n00:52:34.560 --> 00:52:35.760\nYou can't do that.\n\n1133\n00:52:35.760 --> 00:52:37.360\n- I'm just kidding, I'm not going to Argentina,\n\n1134\n00:52:37.360 --> 00:52:39.920\nbut I do want to hit on one other big theme\n\n1135\n00:52:39.920 --> 00:52:42.160\nfrom the conversation between you and Anya.\n\n1136\n00:52:42.160 --> 00:52:44.520\nShe talks a lot about how frequently\n\n1137\n00:52:44.520 --> 00:52:47.800\nshe hires taskers from their platform\n\n1138\n00:52:47.800 --> 00:52:49.840\nto come to their house, to complete tasks,\n\n1139\n00:52:49.840 --> 00:52:53.880\nand how much she really enjoys getting to meet her taskers,\n\n1140\n00:52:53.880 --> 00:52:55.880\none of their main goals as a company\n\n1141\n00:52:55.880 --> 00:52:58.920\nis to provide a way for these taskers\n\n1142\n00:52:58.920 --> 00:53:01.400\nto create supplemental income\n\n1143\n00:53:01.400 --> 00:53:04.560\nand live the life that they always wanted to live.\n\n1144\n00:53:04.560 --> 00:53:06.760\nAnd I'm curious, David, from your perspective,\n\n1145\n00:53:06.760 --> 00:53:08.800\nwhat does that say about her leadership style\n\n1146\n00:53:08.800 --> 00:53:10.160\nand her commitment to her product\n\n1147\n00:53:10.160 --> 00:53:13.880\nthat she actually uses her product quite frequently?\n\n1148\n00:53:13.880 --> 00:53:15.400\n- I don't know how you can be a good leader\n\n1149\n00:53:15.400 --> 00:53:17.480\nif you don't know your product inside now.\n\n1150\n00:53:17.480 --> 00:53:20.760\nAnd so how would she know what the whole process is\n\n1151\n00:53:20.760 --> 00:53:23.160\nwithout having her taskers, you know,\n\n1152\n00:53:23.160 --> 00:53:24.440\nhelp her at her house?\n\n1153\n00:53:24.440 --> 00:53:28.240\nAnd so she, that's basically what she did.\n\n1154\n00:53:28.240 --> 00:53:32.640\nAnd, you know, the closer you get to the customer,\n\n1155\n00:53:32.640 --> 00:53:35.840\nthe better you are.\n\n1156\n00:53:35.840 --> 00:53:38.960\nAnd in this particular case, she's the customer.\n\n1157\n00:53:38.960 --> 00:53:40.680\nYeah, sure, she's the CEO\n\n1158\n00:53:40.680 --> 00:53:42.440\nand people are going to want to give her the best.\n\n1159\n00:53:42.440 --> 00:53:47.040\nBut if you know what, if you can't give the CEO the best,\n\n1160\n00:53:47.040 --> 00:53:49.160\nyou can't give, just think what it's going to be like\n\n1161\n00:53:49.160 --> 00:53:50.080\nfor everybody else.\n\n1162\n00:53:50.080 --> 00:53:52.920\nI remember when I used to go on market tours\n\n1163\n00:53:52.920 --> 00:53:56.440\nand people would know I was coming.\n\n1164\n00:53:56.440 --> 00:53:58.600\nIf I walked into a restaurant\n\n1165\n00:53:58.600 --> 00:54:02.240\nand that restaurant was not being run well,\n\n1166\n00:54:02.240 --> 00:54:04.760\nwhich happened, unfortunately,\n\n1167\n00:54:04.760 --> 00:54:06.580\nmore than I would have liked it said,\n\n1168\n00:54:06.580 --> 00:54:10.480\nI would go, \"Holy crap, what's it like\n\n1169\n00:54:10.480 --> 00:54:13.080\nwhen the CEO isn't there?\"\n\n1170\n00:54:13.080 --> 00:54:15.920\nYou know, if they can't do it well when I'm walking in,\n\n1171\n00:54:15.920 --> 00:54:17.440\nthere's a big problem.\n\n1172\n00:54:17.440 --> 00:54:22.440\nAnd so I think, you know, in this particular case,\n\n1173\n00:54:22.920 --> 00:54:26.600\nshe got close to the customer by being a customer\n\n1174\n00:54:26.600 --> 00:54:28.280\nand having the taskers come in.\n\n1175\n00:54:28.280 --> 00:54:31.000\nIn my case, you know, I got close to the customer\n\n1176\n00:54:31.000 --> 00:54:32.720\nby going into stores, you know,\n\n1177\n00:54:32.720 --> 00:54:35.160\nseeing how our operations were\n\n1178\n00:54:35.160 --> 00:54:37.880\nand talking to customers firsthand.\n\n1179\n00:54:37.880 --> 00:54:41.320\nAnd, you know, I think the way how she makes decisions\n\n1180\n00:54:41.320 --> 00:54:43.400\nis also something that's very, very important\n\n1181\n00:54:43.400 --> 00:54:44.240\nfor every leader.\n\n1182\n00:54:44.240 --> 00:54:45.800\nShe makes decisions based\n\n1183\n00:54:45.800 --> 00:54:48.280\nas what she's hearing from customers.\n\n1184\n00:54:48.280 --> 00:54:50.400\nYou know, you listen and respond\n\n1185\n00:54:50.400 --> 00:54:51.720\nto the voice of the customer.\n\n1186\n00:54:51.720 --> 00:54:53.440\nThat's a major takeaway.\n\n1187\n00:54:53.440 --> 00:54:55.400\nAnd that, you know, it's very simple,\n\n1188\n00:54:55.400 --> 00:54:58.080\nbut people often overlook it.\n\n1189\n00:54:58.080 --> 00:55:01.480\nIf you want to understand the customer, be a customer.\n\n1190\n00:55:01.480 --> 00:55:03.480\nThat's a major takeaway.\n\n1191\n00:55:03.480 --> 00:55:06.480\nSo, you know, she's just a leader\n\n1192\n00:55:06.480 --> 00:55:10.760\nthat understands the importance of doing the basics\n\n1193\n00:55:10.760 --> 00:55:14.000\nreally well and then pushing her organization\n\n1194\n00:55:14.000 --> 00:55:15.520\nto take it to the next level.\n\n1195\n00:55:15.520 --> 00:55:18.160\nShe's really trying to go for bold thinking\n\n1196\n00:55:18.160 --> 00:55:22.040\nand, you know, figure out the next steps on AI,\n\n1197\n00:55:22.040 --> 00:55:24.400\nget better at that herself.\n\n1198\n00:55:24.400 --> 00:55:28.520\nBut she knows how to know herself and grow herself.\n\n1199\n00:55:28.520 --> 00:55:32.680\nAnd I think as a result, you know, she's growing her business.\n\n1200\n00:55:32.680 --> 00:55:33.520\n- Absolutely.\n\n1201\n00:55:33.520 --> 00:55:36.800\nWell, I'm so thrilled to stay close to TaskRabbit.\n\n1202\n00:55:36.800 --> 00:55:40.880\nAnd I actually hired a TaskR last weekend\n\n1203\n00:55:40.880 --> 00:55:42.840\nto install a new chandelier in my house.\n\n1204\n00:55:42.840 --> 00:55:45.240\nAnd Anya, if you're listening, had a great experience.\n\n1205\n00:55:45.240 --> 00:55:50.240\nSo, excellent work. I loved my Tasker, Eduardo was his name.\n\n1206\n00:55:50.240 --> 00:55:51.520\nHe did a great job.\n\n1207\n00:55:51.520 --> 00:55:52.800\nThere was no mess in my house.\n\n1208\n00:55:52.800 --> 00:55:54.280\nHe was super respectful and kind.\n\n1209\n00:55:54.280 --> 00:55:57.800\nSo, they really know how to set the standard.\n\n1210\n00:55:57.800 --> 00:56:02.000\nAnd I'm excited to continue to watch where Anya takes it.\n\n1211\n00:56:02.000 --> 00:56:03.800\n- Let me tell you, if there's one person in the world\n\n1212\n00:56:03.800 --> 00:56:06.680\nthat needs a handyman or handywoman, I am.\n\n1213\n00:56:06.680 --> 00:56:09.520\nSo, I'm gonna have to give him a call.\n\n1214\n00:56:09.520 --> 00:56:11.000\n- TaskRabbit.com, David.\n\n1215\n00:56:11.000 --> 00:56:13.000\nTaskRabbit.com.\n\n1216\n00:56:13.000 --> 00:56:14.040\n- There we go.\n\n1217\n00:56:14.040 --> 00:56:16.480\nThank you so much for tuning in to another episode\n\n1218\n00:56:16.480 --> 00:56:18.320\nof How Leaders Lead with David Novak.\n\n1219\n00:56:18.320 --> 00:56:19.720\nWe'll see you next Thursday.\n","pretty_transcript","is_pinned",0,"mix_url","https://chtbl.com/track/DCB44F/traffic.megaphone.fm/DVL2118051083.mp3","dx_media_id",2685,"published_date","2026-01-22","itunes_episode_id",275,"youtube_id","nvLF97cd45I","leader_id",261,"dx_url","https://dnl.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/5iCE52aBrX1hMRXRkCBsiS4MFxrKUOjjiDWcoU5p.mp3","dx_mux_playback_id","PcWWQhCzBz8q5LIuHRPbu015Wz35NBqZ35v8Stn4OJIo","dx_waveform_url","https://dnl.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/waveforms/2685.json","duration",3381046,"dx_media",{"_5":21,"_40":41,"_42":31,"_43":33,"_44":45,"_46":35,"_36":37,"_47":-5},"filename","5iCE52aBrX1hMRXRkCBsiS4MFxrKUOjjiDWcoU5p.mp3","url","mux_playback_id","mux_asset_id","g02VENIsQGwc8MoVtxMipNcrPNW6yECdBqTkErxrUnsg","waveform_url","preview_media_id","root","actionData","errors"]